Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: mathlib4

Topic: What's needed for automorphic forms?


Kevin Buzzard (May 17 2025 at 20:28):

As far as I can see, in order to make the definition of an automorphic form for a connected reductive group over a global field there are two key missing pieces: (1) definition of a reductive group (NB this is not a group, it's a group variety) and (2) real points of a smooth variety over the reals are a real manifold.

For (1) I feel like I can figure out myself what is missing, and my instinct is that we should do the Lie algebra theory first (which people like Oliver Nash are doing), but for (2) I always forget. An example of what I'm talking about: consider a symplectic or orthogonal group, as a subgroup of GLn(R)GL_n(\R) cut out by finitely many polynomial equations. What is needed in order to make this into a real manifold? The inverse or implicit function theorem or something? Are there people working on this?

Ideally the statement would be that if X is a scheme over the reals which is smooth of relative dimension n then the set of real sections of the structure map (i.e. the real points of X) should inherit the structure of a real n-dimensional manifold. As I type this I remember that the first thing to do is to give it the structure of a topological space, for which #21283 is key.

Andrew Yang (May 17 2025 at 21:09):

For (2) I think the current hurdle is to even define submanifolds and then you want the regular value theorem (which is just a packaged version of implicit function theorem). I have talked to @Christian Merten about this, who has then talked to @Michael Rothgang who seem to have some plans.

Christian Merten (May 17 2025 at 21:10):

@Michael Rothgang is actively working on the necessary differential geometry. On the algebraic side, we should have everything.

Andrew Yang (May 17 2025 at 21:12):

On the algebraic side we still need that smooth implies regular (in the sense of the regular value theorem, i.e. differentials doesn't vanish)

Christian Merten (May 17 2025 at 21:14):

Isn't that the current definition of smooth?

Antoine Chambert-Loir (May 18 2025 at 09:50):

For (2), there is a general theorem of Élie Cartan : a closed subgroup GG of GL(n,R)\mathrm{GL}(n,\mathbf R) is a submanifold. The proof (in the way I teach it) goes by first exhibiting its tangent cone at identity, and showing that this is the set g\mathfrak g of all matrices AMat(n,R)A\in\mathrm{Mat}(n,\mathbf R) such that exp(tA)G\exp(tA)\in G for all tRt\in\mathbf R. Then, the inverse function theorem for the exponential map shows that GG is a submanifold, with tangent space g\mathfrak g. Also, g\mathfrak g is a sub-Lie-algebra of Mat(n,R)\mathrm{Mat}(n,\mathbf R).

Patrick Massot (May 19 2025 at 16:24):

Formalizing Cartan’s closed subgroup theorem would be really nice.

Antoine Chambert-Loir (May 19 2025 at 17:28):

But that means formalizing submanifolds first.

Patrick Massot (May 19 2025 at 18:51):

Yes, that's long overdue.


Last updated: Dec 20 2025 at 21:32 UTC