Zulip Chat Archive
Stream: new members
Topic: Permutation A_4
Nick_adfor (May 17 2025 at 15:38):
How to prove that e, (a b c), (a b)(c d) generate A_4
a, b, c, d = 0 or 1 or 2 or 3.
I think that this trivial proof must be already a theorem in lean. But I do not find it. Even a swap product need to be defined by myself! Is there any easier way?
Nick_adfor (May 17 2025 at 15:40):
def IsDoubleTransposition (σ : Perm (Fin 4)) : Prop :=
∃ (a b c d : Fin 4), a ≠ b ∧ c ≠ d ∧
Disjoint ({a, b} : Finset (Fin 4)) ({c, d} : Finset (Fin 4)) ∧
σ = swap a b * swap c d
Kevin Buzzard (May 17 2025 at 15:55):
Can you formalize your question in Lean? Or are you asking a maths question?
Nick_adfor (May 17 2025 at 15:57):
Kevin Buzzard said:
Can you formalize your question in Lean? Or are you asking a maths question?
Yes, and I'm trying. Now the first step is to prove all the generators are in A_4.
Kevin Buzzard (May 17 2025 at 16:01):
Can you edit your code to make it a #mwe , so that people can run your code with just one click? I can't get this compiling as it stands. Was it written by a language model by the way? Does it compile for you?
Nick_adfor (May 18 2025 at 04:07):
Kevin Buzzard said:
Can you edit your code to make it a #mwe , so that people can run your code with just one click? I can't get this compiling as it stands. Was it written by a language model by the way? Does it compile for you?
I was trying to prove it by:
Lemma 1: Prove that all elements of the generating set are in A₄
Lemma 2: Prove that every element of A₄ can be generated by the generating set
Main Theorem: A₄ is generated by three types of permutations
And I am on lemma 1 now. "simp only" is totally wrong. I'm trying to fix it.
Nick_adfor (May 18 2025 at 04:41):
import Mathlib
open Equiv Perm
def IsDoubleTransposition (σ : Perm (Fin 4)) : Prop :=
∃ (a b c d : Fin 4), a ≠ b ∧ c ≠ d ∧
Disjoint (support (swap a b)) (support (swap c d)) ∧
σ = swap a b * swap c d
def doubleTranspositions : List (Perm (Fin 4)) :=
[swap 0 1 * swap 2 3,
swap 0 2 * swap 1 3,
swap 0 3 * swap 1 2]
lemma mem_doubleTranspositions_iff {σ : Perm (Fin 4)} :
σ ∈ doubleTranspositions ↔ IsDoubleTransposition σ := by sorry
mwe is here now.
Nick_adfor (May 18 2025 at 07:01):
The discussion is here now.
#new members > I want to write a lemma eq_empty_iff_forall_not_mem
Last updated: Dec 20 2025 at 21:32 UTC