Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: new members

Topic: Transitivity in Equational Logic


Julius Hamilton (Dec 08 2024 at 02:19):

Equational logic is a fragment of first order logic which only uses universal quantification, the equality relation, and no logical connectives (I think).

Transitivity is the condition for a relation RR that x,y,z,xRyyRzxRz\forall x, y, z, xRy \wedge yRz \to xRz.

I would like to prove or disprove that any structure which models a transitive relation RR cannot be axiomatized by a purely equational theory.

My background is I have been studying logic for about a year.

I am thinking there could be a syntactic proof using term rewriting. In a confluent, terminating reduction system, every term has a unique normal form (I think), which allows us to decide equality for two terms. Maybe I can show how a certain class of first-order formulae have a reduction system where the normal forms are equational theories, or something.

I also think there could be a semantic proof where I compare the class of models of a theory of a transitive relation RR, and a class of models for an arbitrary equational theory, to show that they are distinct.

I'm very new to this, so interested in getting some feedback. Thanks.

Notification Bot (Dec 08 2024 at 02:25):

This topic was moved here from #Equational > Transitivity in Equational Logic by Kevin Buzzard.

Zoltan A. Kocsis (Z.A.K.) (Dec 08 2024 at 02:27):

I would like to prove or disprove that any structure which models a transitive relation R cannot be axiomatized by a purely equational theory.

You can disprove this by way of counterexample. Of course, equality itself is a transitive relation, it is definable, and clearly axiomatizable by a purely equational theory (the empty theory with no axioms).

Less trivially, the theory of semilattices (associative, commutative, idempotent magmas) is purely equational, and defines a partial order relation by the formula x + y = x. Partial order relations are of course transitive.

Kevin Buzzard (Dec 08 2024 at 02:28):

@Julius Hamilton I moved your question to a more appropriate channel.


Last updated: May 02 2025 at 03:31 UTC