Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: maths

Topic: Proving that group_filter_basis induces a group topology


Sebastian Monnet (Feb 27 2022 at 13:37):

A docs#group_filter_basis on a group GG is a collection B\mathcal{B} of subsets of GG satisfying some axioms. For each element xGx \in G, we define the neighbourhoods of xx to be

N(x)={NG:xDN for some DB}.\mathcal{N}(x) = \{N \subseteq G : xD \subseteq N \text{ for some } D \in \mathcal{B}\}.

Then we define a topology on GG by making UGU\subseteq G open if and only if for all xUx \in U, we have UN(x)U \in \mathcal{N}(x). In other words, UU is open if and only if for all xUx \in U, there exists DxBD_x \in \mathcal{B} with xDxUxD_x \subseteq U. docs#group_filter_basis.is_topological_group tells us that this topology makes GG into a topological group. The proof in mathlib uses filters, but I would like to prove the theorem (not in Lean) using standard open set definitions.

Currently, I'm stuck trying to show that multiplication is continuous. In order to do this, we need to show that for all x,yGx,y \in G and open WW containing xyxy, there are open sets xUx \in U and yVy \in V such that UVWU \cdot V \subseteq W. So let xyWxy \in W be open. Then by definition of the topology, there is some DBD \in \mathcal{B} with xyDWxyD \subseteq W. By docs#group_filter_basis.mul', there is some DBD' \in \mathcal{B} with DDDD'\cdot D'\subseteq D, and by docs#conj', there is also some DBD'' \in \mathcal{B} with y1DyDy^{-1}D''y \subseteq D'. Then we have

xDyD=xyy1DyDxyDDxyD.xD''\cdot yD' = xyy^{-1}D''yD' \subseteq xyD'\cdot D' \subseteq xy D.

So at this point, all I need is some open xUxDx \in U \subseteq xD'' and yVyDy \in V \subseteq yD'. However, I am struggling to find such UU and VV. I thought about defining the interiors of these sets as N={xN:NN(x)}N^\circ = \{x \in N : N \in \mathcal{N}(x)\}, but I wasn't able to show that these are open using the axioms of a group filter basis.

Can anyone help me prove this?

Patrick Massot (Feb 27 2022 at 14:53):

The crucial thing you are probably missing is that N\mathcal{N} satisfies the second part of the assumptions in docs#topological_space.nhds_mk_of_nhds. This is proved in https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib/blob/77e76ee5bcac94fe8b67d64b72ee59176761ea77/src/topology/algebra/filter_basis.lean#L152

Patrick Massot (Feb 27 2022 at 14:54):

That being said, you seem to be doing pretty masochistic work in wanting to use group filter bases but not filters...

Sebastian Monnet (Feb 27 2022 at 15:10):

Patrick Massot said:

That being said, you seem to be doing pretty masochistic work in wanting to use group filter bases but not filters...

So would you say that my proof strategy is doomed to be unpleasant unless I invoke results proved using filters? My intuition was that there must be a short proof of such a simple fact

Patrick Massot (Feb 27 2022 at 15:11):

Filters are simple!

Patrick Massot (Feb 27 2022 at 15:11):

But you can definitely write a proof inlining everything there is to know here. I indicated the missing argument.

Sebastian Monnet (Feb 27 2022 at 18:48):

Ah yes, you're right. That argument was exactly what I was looking for

Sebastian Monnet (Feb 27 2022 at 19:52):

Thank you*


Last updated: Dec 20 2023 at 11:08 UTC