Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: maths

Topic: Showing S : Λ ⟶ ∑₂ is topological conjugacy with μ > 4


Attila Vajda (Oct 18 2025 at 10:20):

I would like to learn to write this proof in Lean4,
to learn more about these concepts.

I got this exercise as part of a dynamical systems introductory course.

Any tips would help with what to learn to construct this proof.

Λ is Cantor set under logistic function f : μx(1-x), μ > 4
∑₂ is bi-infinite sequences with shift function S : ∑₂ ⟶ ∑₂

Conjugacy condition:
h ∘ f = S ∘ h
(I think this is the goal maybe)

  Λ ───f───> Λ
  |           |
 h|           |h
             
  Σ₂ ───S───> Σ₂

Kevin Buzzard (Oct 18 2025 at 14:48):

Can you give much more precise definitions of Λ\Lambda and Σ2\Sigma_2? There are many meanings to "Cantor set", your function ff depends on an unspecified parameter μ\mu and is unlikely to take a random Cantor set to itself, and you don't say the values that your sequences are taking.

Attila Vajda (Oct 19 2025 at 14:12):

Kevin Buzzard said:

Can you give much more precise definitions of Λ\Lambda and Σ2\Sigma_2? There are many meanings to "Cantor set", your function ff depends on an unspecified parameter μ\mu and is unlikely to take a random Cantor set to itself, and you don't say the values that your sequences are taking.

Thank you for your message Kevin and yes! Here is more about Λ \Lambda and Σ2 \Sigma_2 .

It seems my textbook by Robert Devaney discusses all the components that make up a proof. I'm not yet sure why for μ>4 \mu > 4 points escape the interval.

Λ

For Fμ=μx(1x) F_\mu = \mu x(1-x) with μ>4 \mu > 4 , the invariant Cantor set is:

Λ=n0Fμn([0,1]).\Lambda = \bigcap_{n \ge 0} F_\mu^{-n}([0,1]).

This is the set of points whose orbits never escape [0,1] [0,1] .

∑₂

The space of infinite sequences of 0s and 1s is called the sequence space on the two symbols 0 and 1:

Σ2={s=(s0s1s2)sj=0 or 1}.\Sigma_2 = \{ s = (s_0 s_1 s_2 \dots) \mid s_j = 0 \text{ or } 1 \}.

σ

The shift map is

σ ⁣:Σ2Σ2\sigma \colon \Sigma_2 \to \Sigma_2

defined by σ(s0s1s2)=(s1s2s3).\sigma(s_0 s_1 s_2 \dots) = (s_1 s_2 s_3 \dots).

S : Λ ⟶ ∑₂

"Thus, the itinerary of x x is an infinite sequence of 0’s and 1’s. That is, S(x) S(x) is a point in the sequence space Σ2 \Sigma_2 . We think of S S as a map from Λ \Lambda to Σ2 \Sigma_2 . This map has several interesting properties." [Devaney]

conjugacy

I think the proof is to show the following diagram commutes:

SFμ=σS.S \circ F_\mu = \sigma \circ S.

"Topologically conjugate mappings are completely equivalent in terms of their dynamics." [Devaney]

Reference: An Introduction to Chaotic Dynamical Systems, Robert Devaney

Bildschirmfoto 2025-10-19 um 15.55.38.png
Bildschirmfoto 2025-10-19 um 15.55.28.png

Aaron Liu (Oct 19 2025 at 14:28):

Is SS strictly monotone if I put the lexographic order on Σ2\Sigma_2

Aaron Liu (Oct 19 2025 at 14:30):

Attila Vajda said:

It seems my textbook by Robert Devaney discusses all the components that make up a proof. I'm not yet sure why for μ>4 \mu > 4 points escape the interval.

It's because μ>4\mu > 4 iff Fμ(1/2)>1F_\mu(1/2) > 1

Aaron Liu (Oct 19 2025 at 14:35):

I think I am understanding what you want to do now but this function S:ΛΣ2S : \Lambda \to \Sigma_2 is still pretty mysterious, can you give either a definition or some characteristic property that uniquely determines it?

Attila Vajda (Oct 20 2025 at 12:09):

Aaron Liu said:

I think I am understanding what you want to do now but this function S:ΛΣ2S : \Lambda \to \Sigma_2 is still pretty mysterious, can you give either a definition or some characteristic property that uniquely determines it?

Oh I left the definition of S out, I think:

The itinerary of xx is a sequence S(x)=s0s1s2S(x) = s_0 s_1 s_2 \dots, where
sj=0s_j = 0 if Fμj(x)I0F_\mu^j(x) \in I_0, sj=1s_j = 1 if Fμj(x)I1F_\mu^j(x) \in I_1.

And the proof is to show S is a homeomorphism, which sends Λ to ∑₂

  Λ  ───f───> Λ
  |           |
 S|           |S
             
  Σ₂ ───σ───> Σ₂
  • Vertical arrows = S (homeomorphism)
  • Commutativity = S ∘ f = σ ∘ S
    both holds → topological conjugacy

Sorry if these don't yet make sense, but I am learning even from trying to explain this description!

Aaron Liu (Oct 20 2025 at 12:11):

Oh, what's I0I_0 and I1I_1? Can you prove that out of the two possibilities Fμj(x)I0F_\mu^j(x) \in I_0 and Fμj(x)I1F_\mu^j(x) \in I_1 exactly one of these happens?

Attila Vajda (Oct 20 2025 at 14:27):

Aaron Liu said:

Oh, what's I0I_0 and I1I_1? Can you prove that out of the two possibilities Fμj(x)I0F_\mu^j(x) \in I_0 and Fμj(x)I1F_\mu^j(x) \in I_1 exactly one of these happens?

I think I is the unit interval [0,1], and I₀ and I₁ are the set of points of the domain of f which don't escape near the peak y > 1 for the zeroth iteration.

Maybe x is in either because I₀ and I₁ are disjoint.

Aaron Liu (Oct 20 2025 at 14:36):

Attila Vajda said:

Aaron Liu said:

Oh, what's I0I_0 and I1I_1? Can you prove that out of the two possibilities Fμj(x)I0F_\mu^j(x) \in I_0 and Fμj(x)I1F_\mu^j(x) \in I_1 exactly one of these happens?

I think I is the unit interval [0,1], and I₀ and I₁ are the set of points of the domain of f which don't escape near the peak y > 1 for the zeroth iteration.

Maybe x is in either because I₀ and I₁ are disjoint.

Sorry, I still don't get it. What do you mean by "near"?

Attila Vajda (Oct 20 2025 at 19:58):

Aaron Liu said:

Attila Vajda said:

Aaron Liu said:

Oh, what's I0I_0 and I1I_1? Can you prove that out of the two possibilities Fμj(x)I0F_\mu^j(x) \in I_0 and Fμj(x)I1F_\mu^j(x) \in I_1 exactly one of these happens?

I think I is the unit interval [0,1], and I₀ and I₁ are the set of points of the domain of f which don't escape near the peak y > 1 for the zeroth iteration.

Maybe x is in either because I₀ and I₁ are disjoint.

Sorry, I still don't get it. What do you mean by "near"?

See the peak of this curve, apparently those points above the line don't return to [0,1]. I don't yet know what happens to those points, maybe "unstructured chaos" or "lost to infinity". They escape and tend to minus infinity.

Bildschirmfoto 2025-10-20 um 20.46.06.png

Bildschirmfoto 2025-10-20 um 21.09.47.png

I learnt perhaps σ(S(x)) = S(f(x)), because
σ(S(x)):
- σ starts the sequence S(x) makes from the second digit
S(f(x)) :
- f(x) is the first iteration, so it's sequence via S doesn't have the first digit of S(x)

S(x) = (b₀, b₁, b₂, …) reads the orbit starting at x (0th iteration).
S(f(x)) = (b₁, b₂, …) reads the orbit starting at the 1st iteration.
σ(S(x))=(b1​,b2​,…) shifts S(x) one

Here is a sketch in Lean4:

coinductive Σ₂
| cons : Fin 2  Σ₂  Σ₂

variable (μ : ) ( : μ > 4)

def f (x : ) := μ * x * (1-x)

def Λ := {x :  |  n, (f^[n] x)  [0,1]}  -- invariant set under μ>4

def S (x : ) : Σ₂ :=
  coinductive.cons (if x < 0.5 then 0 else 1) (S (f μ x))

def σ (s : Σ₂) : Σ₂ :=
  match s with
  | Σ₂.cons _ tail => tail

theorem conjugacy {x : } ( : x  Λ) :
  σ (S x) = S (f μ x) := by rfl

Also this seems like a nice idea:

Λ seems to have binary tree structure, as well as ∑₂, so would it be maybe meaningful to show

inductive   -- "tree"
|  :                      -- leaf
|  :          -- node (branch)

Λ : 木 and ∑₂ : 木 → Λ ≅ ∑₂

Aaron Liu (Oct 20 2025 at 20:01):

ok after reading the thing I get it now

Aaron Liu (Oct 20 2025 at 20:20):

I don't know what kind of stuff you are trying to prove but here's a template that actually compiles

import Mathlib

variable (μ : )

def f (x : ) :  := μ * x * (1 - x)

theorem continuous_f : Continuous (f μ) := by
  sorry

def Λ : Set  := { x |  n, 0  (f μ)^[n] x }

theorem mapsto_f_Λ : Set.MapsTo (f μ) (Λ μ) (Λ μ) := by
  sorry

def rf : Λ μ  Λ μ := (mapsto_f_Λ μ).restrict

theorem Λ_subset_Icc ( : 0 < μ) : Λ μ  Set.Icc 0 1 := by
  sorry

theorem continuous_rf : Continuous (rf μ) := by
  sorry

abbrev BoolSeq : Type := Nat  Bool

def σ (x : BoolSeq) : BoolSeq := fun n => x (n + 1)

theorem continuous_σ : Continuous σ := by
  sorry

theorem surjective_σ : Function.Surjective σ := by
  sorry

noncomputable
def S (x : Λ μ) : BoolSeq := fun n => decide (2⁻¹ < ((rf μ)^[n] x).1)

theorem bijective_S ( : 4 < μ) : Function.Bijective (S μ) := by
  sorry

theorem continuous_S ( : 4 < μ) : Continuous (S μ) := by
  sorry

theorem isHomeomorph_S ( : 4 < μ) : IsHomeomorph (S μ) := by
  sorry

theorem semiconj_S_rf_σ ( : 4 < μ) : Function.Semiconj (S μ) (rf μ) σ := by
  sorry

theorem surjective_rf ( : 4  μ) : Function.Surjective (rf μ) := by
  sorry

Attila Vajda (Oct 21 2025 at 05:03):

Thank you for this template @Aaron Liu :dolphin:


Last updated: Dec 20 2025 at 21:32 UTC