Zulip Chat Archive
Stream: maths
Topic: equivalence between ℓp and Lp
Jireh Loreaux (Aug 10 2022 at 21:18):
I was starting to implement the equivalence between lp
and measure_theory.Lp
(in the case of counting measure on full power set of the domain for functions α → E
) in part as a way to teach myself the measure theory portion of the library. However, I immediately ran into issues and I need some questions answered:
- Why is docs#measure_theory.snorm zero if
p = 0
? I would have expected something likeμ (function.support f)
. This definition prohibits an equivalence in this case. - Will I need to restrict the domain
α
to be countable?
My concern in (2) is in the p = ∞
case. In particular, if the domain α
was something like set.Icc (0 : ℝ) 1
and f : α → ℝ
was given by f x = ↑x
, then we would have mem_ℓp f ∞
but I don't think we would have measure_theory.mem_𝓛p f ∞
, with the latter failing only because f
is not a.e. strongly measurable (at least, I think it's not, but I would be content to be shown otherwise).
In case p < ∞
, one should be able to show that the support of f
is countable, and then one can show f
is a pointwise limit of simple functions and hence is strongly measurable.
Anatole Dedecker (Aug 10 2022 at 21:24):
I would say the natural equivalence should be with Lp for the counting mesure on the measurable space so measurability shouldn't be an issue
Anatole Dedecker (Aug 10 2022 at 21:25):
I mean, somehow this is the "natural" sigma algebra for the counting measure, right ?
Jireh Loreaux (Aug 10 2022 at 21:26):
Yes, I agree, but I think the f
I described above is not docs#measure_theory.ae_strongly_measurable, which is a requirement for measure_theory.mem_𝓛p
Jireh Loreaux (Aug 10 2022 at 21:30):
I guess another way to ask this is: if α
is equipped with ⊤ : measurable_space α
, does that imply every function is strongly measurable?
Anatole Dedecker (Aug 10 2022 at 21:31):
Yes. For your example, docs#continuous.strongly_measurable should mean that it is trongly measurable right ? But that doesn't help with the general case
Anatole Dedecker (Aug 10 2022 at 21:31):
Oh wait maybe it does
Anatole Dedecker (Aug 10 2022 at 21:31):
Just put the discrete topology on the domain
Anatole Dedecker (Aug 10 2022 at 21:32):
But that shouldn't be the right way of doing it anyway
Jireh Loreaux (Aug 10 2022 at 21:43):
ummm... no? The discrete topology on an uncountable set is not a second countable topology.
Jireh Loreaux (Aug 10 2022 at 21:44):
Again, if that f
I described above is strongly measurable, then what is the sequence of simple functions which converges to it pointwise?
Anatole Dedecker (Aug 10 2022 at 21:56):
Yes but you need only docs#second_countable_topology_either, so having a second countable codomain works right? This won't work in general though. Sorry if I'm saying stupid things, I should let someone who knows this better than me answer
Jireh Loreaux (Aug 10 2022 at 22:10):
Yeah, okay, but that's easy to break too (as you mentioned), just map instead into lp (lambda (_ : real), real) top
Rémy Degenne (Aug 11 2022 at 07:43):
The choice of snorm
being uniformly 0 for p=0
is a bit of a junk value, but it makes many lemmas true for all p instead of 0 < p
. Apart from that, it makes Lp E 0 μ
equal to the space of ae_strongly_measurable functions (equivalence classes of), which corresponds to the usual L0 notation. That last point is not important: we don't use Lp E 0 μ
for that space, we use measure_theory.ae_eq_fun
.
I tried replacing the definition of snorm at 0 by μ (function.support f)
and it looks like most lemmas used to compare snorm at different exponents now require an additional 0 < p
. Also various other results now break at 0, like snorm (c • f) p μ = (∥c∥₊ : ℝ≥0∞) * snorm f p μ
, or (∀ᵐ x ∂μ, ∥f x∥ ≤ c * ∥g x∥) → ∥f∥ ≤ c * ∥g∥
.
In summary, Lp 0 was not considered a useful object, hence snorm at 0 was defined to be the junk value that makes as many lemmas true at 0 as possible. If you have a meaningful value for it that turns Lp E 0 μ
into something useful, the slight inconvenience of a few 0 < p
hypotheses could be worth it. Otherwise, I guess you can define your equivalence for 0 < p
?
Last updated: Dec 20 2023 at 11:08 UTC