Zulip Chat Archive
Stream: maths
Topic: what is an unramified extension?
Kevin Buzzard (Jun 10 2025 at 21:53):
What is the correct generality to talk about unramified extensions of fields?
Here are some uses which I could imagine.
A common usage of the word mathematically: if is an extension of number fields then we talk about being unramified at a maximal ideal of the integers of , and also of an extension being unramified at a maximal ideal of (meaning it is unramified at every maximal ideal of lying above it). One could of course also do the same thing for general global fields (although now perhaps there are two ways to think about it -- one is unramified at a place of the field, which is perhaps an equivalence class of valuations, but one could also use the AKLB set-up where A is a "ring of integers" so you throw away finitely many valuations, and now you have to prove that the concept of being unramified at a place is independent of the choices, and you also have to prove some kind of Ostrowski's theorem to show that this even makes sense).
Then there's the correpsonding local story, and here I'm not entirely sure what generality one should work in. Does K have to be discretely valued? Does the residue field have to be perfect? For a nonarch local field there's a unique unramified extension of degree n for n any positive integer. In what generality is it true that there's an equivalence of categories "unramified extensions of K = arbitrary/separable extensions of k" where k is the residue field of K?
Right now it seems that mathlib only has stuff like docs#Algebra.IsUnramifiedAt which doesn't apply to anything above because it only works at the integer ring level. The thing about number fields and local fields is that they all have "canonical integer rings" in them (as opposed to char p global fields where we seem to have a choice depending on which valuation we decree is infinity).
Presumably one way to treat all of this is via Witt vectors. IIRC Fontaine spent his life thinking about precisely this generality: k is an arbitrary perfect field of char p, and K is (isomorphic to) a finite extension of Frac(W(k)). Is this the correct generality for an "unramified" theory in the local case?
Do we have that if k is a perfect field of char p and A is an Artin local ring with residue field k then there's a unique local ring hom W(k)->A inducing the identity on residue fields?
Yakov Pechersky (Jun 11 2025 at 02:01):
Adding an Algebra (FractionRing R) (FractionRing A) in #25684, which would help with a L/K -> Frac(W(L))/Frac(W(K)) situation.
Yakov Pechersky (Jun 11 2025 at 02:34):
Eric pointed out that we also have a somewhat overlapping definition of this in #25611, which also has the FiniteDimensional result.
Yakov Pechersky (Jun 11 2025 at 02:35):
Probably one could extend that to make a statement about Module.finrank
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jun 11 2025 at 07:19):
<nitpicking>a field has only one maximal ideal, and it is not that thing you have in mind</nitpicking>
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jun 11 2025 at 07:20):
There is a definition of ramification for any extension of valued fields. The value group (the correct one) doesn't change. For finite extensions, the index of value groups is finite and is the ramification index.
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jun 11 2025 at 07:25):
The other definition is “ramification of a morphism of schemes (or rings)”, which — in your case — will require to introduce the rings of integers, where you can choose between “formally unramified” and “(G)-ramified” depending whether you wish to add a finite type/finite presentation hypothesis.
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jun 11 2025 at 07:27):
For function fields , there is no ring of integers, but there is a base field (the algebraic closure of the prime field in ) and a scheme (the unique proper regular -curve with function field ). In your case, will be finite and will be smooth and geometrically integral over .
Kevin Buzzard (Jun 11 2025 at 12:29):
So if we stick to finite extensions of valued fields what is the classification of unramified extensions in this setting? Presumably it doesn't exist because you didn't even assume completeness? I think my question has become "I want to prove that for a finite extension of Qp, finite unramified extensions of it are the same as finite extensions of the residue field. What theorem would bourbaki prove such that this is a corollary?"
Kevin Buzzard (Jun 11 2025 at 12:31):
Or perhaps "for what valued fields is it the case that the category of finite unramified extensions is naturally equivalent to the category of finite or perhaps finite separable extensions of the residue field?"
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 12:57):
If you want an analogous classification (assuming the residue field is perfect) then you would need to assume Henselianity of the valuation of the base.
Yakov Pechersky (Jun 11 2025 at 12:57):
Math question: does this statement parse: "Any unramified extension of Q^unr_p is isomorphic to Q^unr_p"?
Kevin Buzzard (Jun 11 2025 at 12:59):
Yes I think so, and an even stronger statement is probably true: any finite (or even algebraic) unramified extension has degree 1. I am unclear about whether transcendental extensions can/should be unramified or whether it's a predicate on algebraic extensions
Yakov Pechersky (Jun 11 2025 at 12:59):
OK, at least then that answers the "do we have to assume completeness" question -- in the negative, extrapolating to posing the same question about Q_p bar.
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 13:00):
Yeah, Henselianity is sufficient. Then there's the question of inseparable extensions of the residue field.
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 13:02):
For example: take some prolongation of the -adic valuation to $$\bar\mathbb{Q}$$, consider its decomposition group in the absolute Galois group of , take the invariant field of this decomposition group, call it , and consider the restriction of this valuation to . This will be Henselian, and you get exactly the same classification of unramified extensions over as you would for .
Yakov Pechersky (Jun 11 2025 at 13:03):
(In Mathlib, nothing imports Mathlib.RingTheory.Henselian currently)
Kevin Buzzard (Jun 11 2025 at 13:03):
If Q^unr_p is the uncompleted extension then I guess it's still (strictly) Henselian (it being a union of complete rank 1 extensions) even though it's not complete
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 13:04):
It's not strictly Henselian (in the sense that its ring of integers is not a strictly Henselian local ring) since the residue field is not separably closed but it is Henselian.
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 13:04):
Or maybe you have a different definition of "strict Henselian"?
Yakov Pechersky (Jun 11 2025 at 13:04):
We're abusing notation here a little bit, right? We should be discussing O[K] instead when talking about Henselian, right?
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 13:05):
oh wait, the maximal unramified extension, yes, its strict henselian
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 13:05):
sorry
Yakov Pechersky (Jun 11 2025 at 13:06):
Some nice TODOs from Johan from 4 years ago: https://gist.github.com/jcommelin/47d94e4af092641017a97f7f02bf9598
Kevin Buzzard (Jun 11 2025 at 13:06):
Yeah I think we've established that we should be developing a theory for valued fields and so we always have the valuation subring, and it seems (cf Antoine's nit) that mathematicians are very good at applying predicates to the field when they really mean the ring
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 13:08):
The book "Valued Fields" is a pretty good source: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/3-540-30035-X
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 13:08):
and it's short!
Jz Pan (Jun 11 2025 at 16:45):
Yakov Pechersky said:
Math question: does this statement parse: "Any unramified extension of Q^unr_p is isomorphic to Q^unr_p"?
But I think and is an unramified (transcendental) extension of , right?
But what do "isomorphic" mean, isomorphic as abstract fields? They could still be isomorphic as abstract fields, as but both of them are isomorphic to as abstract fields, since they are all algebraically closed and has same transcendental degree over .
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 17:03):
the completion of is an immediate extension of the uncompleted version (immediate means that it has the same value group and same residue field).
Adam Topaz (Jun 11 2025 at 17:03):
And indeed this is not algebraic. The statement about them being isomorphic should be restricted to algebraic extensions.
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jun 11 2025 at 17:10):
Moreover, there are complete valued fields (eg !) which have immediate extensions. (Those who haven't are called spherically complete.)
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jun 11 2025 at 17:29):
Back to your question, @Kevin Buzzard, about how Bourbaki would classify unramified finite extensions of a -adic field, this is not that clear. If one follows that general path, one should probably need
- The equality that Bourbaki proves in Commutative Algebra, chapter 6, §8, for extensions of discretely valued fields, provided the integral closure is finitely generated.
- In the complete case, you only have one extension of the valuation, so the preceding equality becomes .
- The finiteness of the integral closure in the complete case is Nagata's theorem; see Commutative Algebra, chapter 9, §4.
Since you assume , this gives you .
- One also needs to construct the unramified extension. In your case, the residue field is finite, hence perfect, so Witt vectors suffice. (Otherwise, you would need the theory of Cohen rings, and “gonflement”…)
The conclusion is that doing number theory through commutative algebra is tough, but this is probably the way higher arithmetic geometry will scale.
Last updated: Dec 20 2025 at 21:32 UTC