Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: Is there code for X?

Topic: Set that descends to a quotient


Brendan Seamas Murphy (Feb 05 2024 at 01:52):

Say we have α : Sort*, r : α → α → Prop (known to be an equivalence relation), and S : Set α. What's the mathlib-idomatic way to say that S is a union of equivalence classes of r, i.e. that S is the preimage of some Set (Quot r)? I'm also happy to assume α, r are given as a setoid instead separately

Brendan Seamas Murphy (Feb 05 2024 at 01:55):

One way we could write it is as (r ⇒ Iff) (. ∈ S) (. ∈ S) or (r ⇒ (. → .)) (. ∈ S) (. ∈ S), but I've never used or any of the Relator stuff and it's a bit of a mystery to me

Adam Topaz (Feb 05 2024 at 02:19):

Those spellings all look hard to understand or even parse. Can you just say that the set is the premiage of its image?

Brendan Seamas Murphy (Feb 05 2024 at 02:24):

That works, but it would be nice to get a definitional equality with ∀ x y, r x y → (x ∈ S ↔ y ∈ S) or ∀ x y, r x y → x ∈ S → y ∈ S since this type is directly "about" α and can applied to terms of type α to get something useful

(I agree re: the things)

Brendan Seamas Murphy (Feb 05 2024 at 02:29):

Also, I think the word I was looking for to desrcibe these sets is "saturated". At least this is what was used for describing the quotient topology when I first learned topology

Adam Topaz (Feb 05 2024 at 02:48):

I would just use those. “For all x,y, r x y implies x in S implies y in S” sounds reasonable.

Terence Tao (Feb 05 2024 at 03:24):

If you are willing to use Setoids, ⟨r, h⟩ ≤ Setoid.ker S works (where h is a proof of Equivalence r).

Brendan Seamas Murphy (Feb 05 2024 at 03:25):

I think that would give = instead of iff

Junyan Xu (Feb 05 2024 at 16:19):

(r ⇒ (. ∈ S → . ∈ S)) should also work right?

"saturated" is too ambiguous IMO, see here for two different meanings in the context of monoids.


Last updated: May 02 2025 at 03:31 UTC