Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: Is there code for X?

Topic: The commutativity of valuation and Galois group action


Junjie Bai (Sep 03 2025 at 02:13):

Let L/K be a finite extension of valuation fields. I'm trying to proof the commutativity of valuation and Galois group action using the theorem 'spectralNorm_eq_of_equiv'. For this, I need to use the theorem 'spectralNorm_unique' to show that the Norm over L is equivalance to the spectralNorm. However, it only shows that the 'AlgebraNorm' is equal to the spectralNorm. I'm not familiar with the 'AlgebraNorm' structure. Can anyone show me that how to proof the Norm over L induced by valuation is equivalence to an 'AlgebraNorm', or should I change a way to proof this?
Here is a #mwe :

import Mathlib

open Valued Valuation AlgEquiv
instance : LinearOrderedCommGroupWithZero ℤₘ₀ := sorry

variable (K L : Type*) [Field K] [Field L]  [vK : Valued K ℤₘ₀] [vL : Valued L ℤₘ₀] [Algebra K L] [FiniteDimensional K L] [Normal K L] [Algebra.IsSeparable K L] [Valuation.HasExtension vK.v vL.v] [CompleteSpace K]
variable (σ : (L ≃ₐ[K] L)) {x : L} (hx : x  vL.v.integer)

#check spectralNorm_unique
#check spectralNorm_eq_of_equiv
example : vL.v (x) = vL.v (σ (x)) := by sorry

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 02:35):

This isn't going to be easy to prove from your assumptions, especially given that you have an arbitrary ℤₘ₀. When it should be open WithZero [...] ℤᵐ⁰.

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 02:35):

Also, note the arguments to docs#spectralNorm.normedField:

(K : Type u) [NontriviallyNormedField K] (L : Type v) [Field L] [Algebra K L] [Algebra.IsAlgebraic K L] [hu : IsUltrametricDist K] [CompleteSpace K]

So that part of the library works over ultrametric fields, not valued fields.

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 02:51):

But putting it together:

import Mathlib

open Valued Valuation AlgEquiv

open WithZero

lemma norm_eq_iff {X : Type*} (N N' : NormedField X) {x y : X} :
    (letI := N; x = y)  (letI := N'; x = y) := by
  sorry

variable (K L : Type*) [Field K] [Field L]  [vK : Valued K ᵐ⁰] [vL : Valued L ᵐ⁰] [Algebra K L] [FiniteDimensional K L] [Normal K L] [Algebra.IsSeparable K L] [Valuation.HasExtension vK.v vL.v] [CompleteSpace K] [vK.v.IsNontrivial] [vL.v.IsNontrivial]
variable (σ : (L ≃ₐ[K] L)) {x : L} (hx : x  vL.v.integer)

open NormedField in
example : vL.v x = vL.v (σ x) := by
  letI : vK.v.RankOne := (Valuation.nonempty_rankOne_iff_mulArchimedean.mpr inferInstance).some
  letI : vL.v.RankOne := (Valuation.nonempty_rankOne_iff_mulArchimedean.mpr inferInstance).some
  suffices x = σ x by
    simpa [le_antisymm_iff] using this
  exact (norm_eq_iff _ (spectralNorm.normedField K L)).mpr (spectralNorm_eq_of_equiv σ _)

Junjie Bai (Sep 03 2025 at 02:52):

Thanks a lot!

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 02:56):

There are some extra assumptions listed there

Junjie Bai (Sep 03 2025 at 04:16):

I see, these seems necessary. I think I have to add them. Thanks a lot!

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 05:00):

Please excuse the rough normed field equals lemma, I think you know what lemma I'm implying about compatibility between nontrivial normed structures on fields

Junjie Bai (Sep 03 2025 at 05:02):

Yes, I know, this is the hard part. I'm trying to figure out which condition is needed and searching for some relevant theorems.

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 05:05):

Interpret L as a NormedSpace over K, and then we need the theorem described here
https://kskedlaya.org/18.787/absolute-values.pdf

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 05:10):

Or https://kconrad.math.uconn.edu/blurbs/gradnumthy/equivnorms.pdf, or the equivalent absolute values pdf also

Junjie Bai (Sep 03 2025 at 05:14):

Exactly! I find the theorem SpectralNorm_unique provides a proof, but it needs an Algebra Norm. The norm over L induced by valuation seems not to be a Algebra Norm.

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 05:29):

From what we currently have, can you construct NormedAlgebra K L?

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 05:30):

And also that for any NormedAlgebra, then the norm is an AlgebraNorm?

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 05:33):

Following that, also convert HasExtension to a NormedAlgebra via docs#Valuation.HasExtension.val_algebraMap and docs#Valued.toNormedField.norm_le_iff, like how I did it with le_antisymm_iff?

Yakov Pechersky (Sep 03 2025 at 05:33):

Then you can apply the uniqueness lemma iiuc

Junjie Bai (Sep 03 2025 at 05:52):

I can't construct NormedAlgebra K L. The field 'norm_smul_le' ask that

a  b  a * b

It seems not correct because a • b = (algebraMap K L a) * b and by the multiplicity of norm we can get the opposite inequality(I hope I didn't get the direction of the inequality sign wrong.)

Filippo A. E. Nuccio (Sep 08 2025 at 16:04):

Pinging @María Inés de Frutos Fernández


Last updated: Dec 20 2025 at 21:32 UTC