Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: Is there code for X?

Topic: surjective endomorphism of a noetherian module is injective?


Scott Morrison (May 20 2021 at 01:12):

Do we have the result that a surjective endomorphism of a Noetherian module is injective?

Scott Morrison (May 20 2021 at 01:20):

For that matter, do we have the "conventional" definition of a Noetherian module (increasing chain of submodules stabilizes), beyond the statement that > on submodules is well-founded? I appreciate that these are "the same", but presumably it's not considered verboten to use the conventional formulation.

Mario Carneiro (May 20 2021 at 01:21):

There is a theorem along those lines for well founded

Scott Morrison (May 20 2021 at 01:21):

But not spelled out for is_noetherian.

Scott Morrison (May 20 2021 at 01:22):

I see there is src#set_has_maximal_iff_noetherian.

Mario Carneiro (May 20 2021 at 01:24):

docs#well_founded.monotone_chain_condition

Mario Carneiro (May 20 2021 at 01:25):

if you combine that with docs#is_noetherian_iff_well_founded you should get the desired statement

Mario Carneiro (May 20 2021 at 01:27):

also docs#rel_embedding.well_founded_iff_no_descending_seq which is a slight variant

Scott Morrison (May 20 2021 at 01:29):

Great, thank you. If anyone can explain to me how to prove the headline result above (surjective endomorphisms of Noetherian modules are injective) without resorting to an ascending chain of submodules, but just directly using the induction principle or well-foundedness, I will have learnt something. :-)

Scott Morrison (May 20 2021 at 01:29):

And in the meantime I'll go off and prove it the low-brow way. :-)

Scott Morrison (May 20 2021 at 02:42):

#7676


Last updated: Dec 20 2023 at 11:08 UTC