Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: Is there code for X?

Topic: valuation associated to a prime ideal


Kevin Buzzard (Feb 09 2024 at 16:40):

If RR is a Dedekind domain with field of fractions KK, then given a maximal ideal PP of RR there's a corresponding valuation subring of KK consisting of the elements of the form a/ba/b with a,bRa,b\in R and b∉Pb\not\in P. Is this ValuationSubring K in mathlib?

I ask because it seems that we have decomposition and inertia subgroups defined in terms of valuation subrings, but I want to talk about Frobenius elements associated to prime ideals so I need the bridge.

The difficulty I found when just trying to knock this off myself is proving mem_or_inv_mem, i.e. that if kKk\in K can't be written as a/ba/b with a,bRa,b\in R and b∉Pb\not\in P, then k1k^{-1} can be. This is specific to the 1-dimensional situation (e.g. it fails for R=C[X,Y]R=\mathbb{C}[X,Y], P=(X,Y)P=(X,Y) and k=X/Yk=X/Y).

Michael Stoll (Feb 09 2024 at 16:48):

What is the paper proof?
You'll have to show that there are c,dc, d such that ad=bcad = bc and cPc \notin P.

Junyan Xu (Feb 09 2024 at 16:49):

We do have docs#IsLocalization.AtPrime.discreteValuationRing_of_dedekind_domain

Kevin Buzzard (Feb 09 2024 at 16:49):

The paper proof is "it's in all the books, and I definitely knew it 20 years ago, but have forgotten it now".

Kevin Buzzard (Feb 09 2024 at 16:51):

Probably Junyan's observation reduces it to "if R is a DVR then it's a valuation subring of its field of fractions" which again is something that I remember seeing go past me and checking 20 years ago.

Michael Stoll (Feb 09 2024 at 16:53):

Well, every nonzero element in the field of fractions is a unit times an integral power of a uniformizer, so this should be easy (assuming the relevant facts are available, which I didn't check).

Kevin Buzzard (Feb 09 2024 at 16:55):

I think I put this statement in for natural powers and elements of the ring myself :-) So probably I can muddle home from here. Thanks! I'll come back if I'm still stuck.

Junyan Xu (Feb 09 2024 at 16:58):

There is a small amount of docs#Localization.subalgebra.ofField APIs developed by @Adam Topaz and it's imported by the file defining ValuationSubring, but they're apparently not used in the file. Maybe more stuff exists in his repo :)

Adam Topaz (Feb 09 2024 at 17:03):

I think we have somewhere that any valuation ring can be viewed as a valuation subring of some field which has an instance of being the fraction field... but I can't find it right now.

Adam Topaz (Feb 09 2024 at 17:04):

Oh we have docs#Valuation.valuationSubring and docs#ValuationRing.valuation

Adam Topaz (Feb 09 2024 at 17:09):

Kevin Buzzard said:

The paper proof is "it's in all the books, and I definitely knew it 20 years ago, but have forgotten it now".

The "conceptual" proof is that the localization of a normal ring is normal, and in codimension 1 being normal is the same as being regular, so the localization of a Dedekind domain at a nonzero prime is a regular local ring of dimension 1, and all such are DVRs. (I guess Noetherianity is required for all these assertions). Do we have all these ingredients in mathlib?

Kevin Buzzard (Feb 09 2024 at 17:10):

My instant response to that is "we have no concept of dimension in commutative algebra in mathlib as far as I know, but my PhD students Jujian and Fangming/John are working hard on it"


Last updated: May 02 2025 at 03:31 UTC