Zulip Chat Archive
Stream: mathlib4
Topic: Composition of immersions is an immersion: infinite-dimensio
Michael Rothgang (Mar 21 2025 at 15:07):
I'm working on a mathlib-level definition of immersions of smooth manifolds. The correct definition is "f: M \to N is a
C^k immersion if around each
x : M, there are charts of
M and
N around
x and
f x, respectively, in which
f looks like
u\mapso (u,0)`.
In finite dimensions, this is equivalent to the familiar definition "f is an immersion iff each differential mfderiv I I' f x
is injective. In infinite-dimensional (e.g. Banach) manifolds, mere injectivity is weaker than the property we want.
So far, so good. The question I'm struggling with is "is the composition of immersions an immersion"?
In finite dimensions, the answer is clearly yes (by the chain rule, the composition of injective maps is injective).
In infinite dimensions, I feel the answer should be yes. (For instance, if M
is an embedded submanifold of N
and N
is an embedded submanifold of P
, we'd like M
to be an embedded submanifold of P
--- so embedded "ought to be" stable under composition, and so should immersions.) But I find this much less obvious to prove.
Approach 1. Follow the definition; let x : M
be arbitrary.
Since pick charts \phi
near x
and \psi
near f x
, and charts \psi'
near f x
and \chi
near g (f x)
such that
f
looks like the inclusion in charts\phi
and\psi
,g
looks like the inclusion in charts\psi'
and\chi
.
If\psi
nadpsi'
were the same chart, we'd be very happy: but a priori, nothing forces them to be.
Approach 2. Looking at other textbooks, Lang (Fundamentals of differential geometry (1999)) proves that being an immersion at x
is equivalent to the differential mfderiv I I' f x
being a split continuous linear map (i.e., being injective, having closed range and the range admitting a closed complement). (See page 27; this uses the inverse function theorem.)
This looks like an approach which could prove composition. However, trying to formalise this in Lean gets me stuck also --- at trying to prove the sum of two closed submodules is closed. (See #23186, at this sorry.)
Thoughts about this are very appreciated. In case "being a submanifold" is no longer transitive in the Banach setting, that would at least be good to know.
Michael Rothgang (Mar 21 2025 at 15:08):
Further data points: Schmeding, Section 1.4 poses "the composition of submersions is a submersion" as an exercise, but makes no statement about immersions. (They work with locally convex spaces, which is a bit more general that mathlib's setting.)
Sébastien Gouëzel (Mar 21 2025 at 15:12):
If I read you correctly, you are asking the following question (which is now a pure linear-algebra question). Let A
and B
be two linear maps between Banach spaces which are injective, with closed range (equivalently, ||A x|| ≥ c ||x||
for a positive constant c
), and with complemented range. Then is the same true for the composition of A
and B
?
Michael Rothgang (Mar 21 2025 at 15:13):
"Complemented range" might mean "closed complement".
I'm not exactly sure about that. I double-checked with another source: yes, closed is required. Makes more sense also.
Michael Rothgang (Mar 21 2025 at 15:13):
In fact, with just any complement, the result is not difficult.
Sébastien Gouëzel (Mar 21 2025 at 15:16):
I think the answer is yes. Injectivity and anti-Lipschitz compose obviously, so the question is the complemented range. Being complemented is the same as being the image of a continuous projection (or the kernel, it's equivalent). Let A : E -> F
and B : F -> G
. Let p_B : G -> range B
be a continuous projection and p_A : F -> range E
. Then B o p_A o B^{-1} o p_B
should be a continuous projection on the range of B o A
, if I'm not mistaken.
Sébastien Gouëzel (Mar 21 2025 at 15:20):
You can also write this by taking C_B
a complement of the range of B
, and C_A
a complement of the range of A
. Then B(C_A) + C_B
is a complement of the range of B o A
, and the question is whether it's closed. In general, the sum of two closed subspaces has no reason to be closed, but here the two components live in the closed direct sum range B + C_B
, so there is no problem.
Sébastien Gouëzel (Mar 21 2025 at 15:22):
(Because the norm on range B + C_B
is equivalent to the max of the norms of the components, where the inequality ||(x, y)|| ≤ max ||x|| ||y||
is obvious, and the other one comes from the continuity of the projections on range B
and C_B
respectively)
Michael Rothgang (Mar 21 2025 at 15:22):
Thanks! I also think, B o p_A o B^{-1} o p_B
should be a projection, so that would work.
Michael Rothgang (Mar 21 2025 at 15:22):
Sébastien Gouëzel said:
You can also write this by taking
C_B
a complement of the range ofB
, andC_A
a complement of the range ofA
. ThenB(C_A) + C_B
is a complement of the range ofB o A
, and the question is whether it's closed. In general, the sum of two closed subspaces has no reason to be closed, but here the two components live in the closed direct sumrange B + C_B
, so there is no problem.
That was what I had tried, and I got stuck at "why is the sum of the complements closed".
Christian Merten (Mar 21 2025 at 15:23):
For approach 1: Can't you restrict to an open neighbourhood of f x
inside the intersection of the two charts around f x
?
Sébastien Gouëzel (Mar 21 2025 at 15:24):
Here is a proof by hand that B(C_A) + C_B
is closed.
Sébastien Gouëzel (Mar 21 2025 at 15:27):
Take a sequence (u_n)
in B(C_A) + C_B
which is converging. By continuity of the projections, their components x_n
and y_n
in range B
and C_B
both converge. As B
is antilipschitz, B^{-1}(x_n)
is also converging. As all of them belong to C_A
, which is closed, B^{-1} x_n
converges to a point in C_A
. Therefore, by continuity of B
, the sequence x_n = B (B^{-1} x_n)
converges to a limit in B(C_A)
. Finally, u_n = x_n + y_n
is converging to a point which is the sum of a point in B(C_A)
and a point in C_B
, qed.
Michael Rothgang (Mar 21 2025 at 15:31):
Thanks a lot! I will digest this, and complete my PR accordingly.
Last updated: May 02 2025 at 03:31 UTC