Zulip Chat Archive
Stream: mathlib4
Topic: The plan for PBW theorem
Wang Jingting (Mar 11 2025 at 07:54):
Hi! We have been thinking about the formalization of Poincare-Birkhoff-Witt theorem for a while, and some preparations on Filtered ring/algebra and associated graded ring/algebra are recently being PRed to mathlib and is still under review.
But there are several questions that still confuse me while we prepare for the formalization, and I would really like to get some suggestions from here.
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How general should we attempt to state the result, and what proof should we follow? Some of the proofs we've been looking at are: (1) the classical proof from Humphrey's book about Lie Algebra, which proves the theorem when the coefficient ring R is a field; (2)A later proof by P.J Higgins, which showed that the result holds when R is a Dedekind domain or the lie algebra is a free module and several other cases... (I came across this proof on MathOverflow)
Both proofs are not very easy to formalize as they involve a lot of concrete calculations, the second one is a longer proof and introduces some algebraic structures that I'm not sure whether we want that. -
Are there any general suggestions on how we can decompose the task to collaborate better? It sure seems like (to me) a relatively large thing to formalize, so I think smoother collaboration will be very helpful to the project.
Thanks for your suggestions in advance!
Johan Commelin (Mar 11 2025 at 08:50):
On MO I found a link to https://arxiv.org/pdf/1804.06485 which deals with a very abstract setup. The application to Lie algebras is maybe not completely straightforward, but I think it might be interesting to spend a few minutes considering it.
Oliver Nash (Mar 11 2025 at 09:41):
Regarding your question 1, even PBW with just field coefficients would be great, and a very welcome addition to the library.
Regarding how generally to work the following are the factors that I tend to bear in mind:
- Applications of the result. What generality do you need to cover them all? Even if they are covered, can you make life easier for downstream users by weakening / dropping an assumption? (E.g., we proved Engel's theorem quite generally and this obviates the need to assume field coefficients for a host of downstream results.)
- Ancillary benefits to Mathlib. Will the extra work require developing theory which will be valuable its own right. (E.g., we have some results for Lie modules under some Artinian + Noetherian assumptions. This is quite ridiculous from the POV of Lie theory but did force us to fill in some API for Artinian / Noetherian modules which should benefit people doing commutative algebra.)
- Personal appetite / curiosity. Sometimes one is just curious about generality.
- Effort required. Often I'm happy to do maybe 2x or 3x the work even for a smallish win in terms of generality but I'd need a big win to justify 10x or more.
It's always a bit of a guess though: for PBW I can't really give great answers to these so I'll just repeat my remark that even just field coefficients would be great.
Oliver Nash (Mar 11 2025 at 09:47):
Regarding your question 2, the gold standard is setting up a Blueprint using @Patrick Massot 's software. Making a good blueprint is a huge amount of work though.
There is also the possibility to use a GitHub Project. Again making a good project is a huge amount of work but even a very tiny one can be valuable. E.g., before I got pulled into other work, I spent about two hours setting one up last year and it has certainly paid me back multiples of the time I took to create it in terms of contributors.
Wang Jingting (Mar 13 2025 at 07:00):
Thanks for the suggestions! I've been trying to set up a blueprint and hopefully it will work. I didn't really get what the abstract setup is about, so we'll probably still stick to the concrete version anyway. By the way, our professor also suggested a proof by Braverman and Gaitstory, which seems to prove something similar with a generalization to Weyl and Clifford algebra.
Oliver Nash (Mar 13 2025 at 09:16):
Formalising this paper would be awesome, especially as it would bring many benefits to the library beyond the PBW theorem itself.
You should be aware it would also be quite a non-trivial undertaking. E.g., it casually uses Hochschild cohomology: setting this up would be a sizeable project in its own right.
Scott Carnahan (Mar 16 2025 at 17:46):
You may be interested in Bergman's "The diamond lemma for ring theory", which gives a proof of PBW in terms of reduction rules - one finds that the Jacobi identity is equivalent to the vanishing of reduction ambiguities.
Last updated: May 02 2025 at 03:31 UTC