Zulip Chat Archive
Stream: homology
Topic: Roadmap for sheaf cohomology
Adam Topaz (Jul 01 2024 at 13:04):
@Kevin Buzzard suggested elsewhere that it would be worthwhile to have a roadmap for sheaf cohomology, and I agree, so I’ll get it started here. Others should feel free to weigh in!
As I see it, there are two main steps, each being fairly large:
- Show that categories of sheaves we are interested in have enough injectives in a suitable level of generality to cover not just sheaf cohomology in the usual sense, but also (pro)étale cohomology, flat cohomology, etc. This could be done, for example, with Grothendieck abelian categories using the proof in his Tohoku paper.
- Prove the equivalence with (hypercover) Cech cohomology as in https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/01H0
In general there is a map from the usual Cech cohomology to hypercover-Cech-cohomology to sheaf cohomology. The proof should at some point construct these maps. Even better: there is the so-called “Cech-to-derived” spectral sequence (I think this is also done in Tohoku?).
Riccardo Brasca (Jul 01 2024 at 13:19):
Is anyone thinking about spectral sequences? I remember @Amelia Livingston was interested in that
Joël Riou (Jul 01 2024 at 13:21):
Riccardo Brasca said:
Is anyone thinking about spectral sequences? I remember Amelia Livingston was interested in that
I have completely formalised the mechanism of spectral sequences! But these are thousands of lines of code. It is going to be very long to make this enter mathlib, and it is not my top priority. For many applications, we just do not really need spectral sequences...
Adam Topaz (Jul 01 2024 at 13:23):
Concerning this, another (better?) approach is to show that the colimit of the hypercover complexes computes in the derived category. I didn’t mention it because I couldn’t find a good reference right now (but check out the comments on the stacks project link I mentioned above).
Adam Topaz (Jul 01 2024 at 13:25):
However I do hope we will be able to do concrete calculations using spectral sequences at some point. (For example the 5-term exact sequence for cohomology groups in low degree has been quite useful in my research)
Notification Bot (Jul 01 2024 at 13:25):
A message was moved here from #homology > Derived categories in mathlib by Adam Topaz.
Joël Riou (Jul 01 2024 at 13:55):
As I have already expressed this view, the simplicial homotopy theory in mathlib is not mature enough yet to consider general hypercovers seriously. Hypercovers are like morphisms of presheaves of simplicial sets (or simplicial presheaves) which are locally trivial fibrations for a Grothendieck topology, but we barely understand what is a trivial fibration of simplicial sets (for example, can we show that it induces a quasi-isomorphism in singular cohomology?).
Joël Riou (Jul 01 2024 at 13:55):
- My suggestion is to first use
Ext
groups (see draft PRs #13883, #13879, #13963, this shall soon be in mathlib). From this, we may get Mayer-Vietoris exact sequences, etc.
Joël Riou (Jul 01 2024 at 13:55):
- When we know that at least some categories of sheaves have enough injectives (this is Adam's 1.), we may introduce the derived functor approach
D^+(abelian sheaves) ⥤ D^+(CommGrp)
. The notion of abstract derived functor is already in mathlib #12788. With the formalism of derivability structures from Bruno Kahn/Georges Maltsiniotis that I am implementing, the main remaining step is to show that bounded above complexes have resolutions by complexes of injective objects. I have introduced definitions in #12624, and will have to PR the rest of it. (I have already shown that theseFunctor.mapDerivedCategoryPlus
compose well, and obtained the associated Grothendieck spectral sequence.)
Joël Riou (Jul 01 2024 at 13:55):
- (Mostly independant of 2). Develop Cech cohomology on a given covering. Show that it maps to the actual cohomology (either from 1. or 2.). This is based on a simplicial object (the "Cech nerve"), which would fit in the general setting of hypercovers, but there is a special trick which allows to circumvent the strong technical issues with general hypercovers, which is the notion of extra-degeneracy that I introduced in mathlib. This can be used to show that the after "abelianization" the Cech nerve gives a resolution of the constant sheaf (this method was already used successfully by @Amelia Livingston in the context of group cohomology). A student of Patrick @yannis monbru in Orsay is currently making some progress on this part.
Joël Riou (Jul 01 2024 at 13:55):
- In the context of topological spaces, pass though the colimit over open coverings to get a map from the Cech cohomology to the actual cohomology. Then get the technical lemma by Henri Cartan (Théorème II.5.9.2 in Godement's book, in French) which says that the morphisms from the Cech cohomology to the actual cohomology is an isomorphism under certain circumstances. Then, deduce the vanishing of the cohomology of quasi-coherent sheaves on affine schemes. The proof in Godement's book uses a spectral sequence (probably the one Adam is referring to), but a careful analysis of filtrations on the single complex of a double complex may be enough.
Joël Riou (Jul 01 2024 at 13:56):
(deleted)
Adam Topaz (Jul 01 2024 at 14:06):
I agree that the hypercover approach would require that we further develop the homotopy theory of simplicial sets. But the nice thing about mathlib is that work can be distributed, and there are already a few people in the community interested in simplicial methods. My opinion is that the hypercover approach is the “right” abstraction, which is why I suggested it (of course, this is just an opinion). Further developing simplicial homotopy theory and the theory of hypercovers would be useful elsewhere as well (e.g. I’m interested in étale homotopy).
Adam Topaz (Jul 01 2024 at 14:09):
Maybe @Jack McKoen would be interested in working on the statement that a trivial fibration induces a quasi-iso?
Joël Riou (Jul 01 2024 at 14:21):
I agree that eventually we would like to have the hypercovering theorem for the computation of cohomology, but strong foundations in simplicial homotopy theory are a prerequisite (see for example the proofs of SGA 4 V 7.2.1/7.3.2 which use a fair share of simplicial homotopy/homology theory).
Ravi Vakil (Jul 01 2024 at 14:26):
Joël Riou said:
As I have already expressed this view, the simplicial homotopy theory in mathlib is not mature enough yet to consider general hypercovers seriously. Hypercovers are like morphisms of presheaves of simplicial sets (or simplicial presheaves) which are locally trivial fibrations for a Grothendieck topology, but we barely understand what is a trivial fibration of simplicial sets (for example, can we show that it induces a quasi-isomorphism in singular cohomology?).
This sounds good to me. And this programme that Joel proposes is not one that needs to be followed in linear order, as he notes (and indeed he is moving forward on several of these fronts at once).
Adam Topaz (Jul 02 2024 at 16:08):
I wanted to check how many things we are missing from pinning down a definition of the Cech complex (and thus Cech cohomology), and this is what I came up with:
import Mathlib
open AlgebraicGeometry CategoryTheory Limits
universe u
variable {A : Type*} [Category A] {X : Scheme.{u}}
instance : HasFiniteLimits (Scheme.OpenCover.{u} X) := sorry
structure OpenOver (X : Scheme) where
dom : Scheme
f : dom ⟶ X
isOpen : IsOpenImmersion f := by infer_instance
instance (f : OpenOver X) : IsOpenImmersion f.f := f.isOpen
instance : Category (OpenOver X) :=
InducedCategory.category fun f => Over.mk f.f
def OpenOver.toOpens (X : Scheme) : OpenOver X ⥤ TopologicalSpace.Opens X where
obj f := f.f.opensRange
map e := LE.le.hom <| sorry
def TopCat.Presheaf.openImmersionFunctor (F : TopCat.Presheaf A X) :
(OpenOver X)ᵒᵖ ⥤ A :=
(OpenOver.toOpens X).op ⋙ F
def AlgebraicGeometry.Scheme.OpenCover.toOpenOver (U : Scheme.OpenCover.{u} X) (j : U.J) :
OpenOver X where
f := U.map j
def Scheme.OpenCover.mapToOpenOver {U V : Scheme.OpenCover.{u} X} (e : U ⟶ V) (j : U.J) :
U.toOpenOver j ⟶ V.toOpenOver (e.idx j) where
left := e.app _
right := 𝟙 _
w := e.w _
noncomputable
def Scheme.OpenCover.inducedFunctor [HasProducts A] (F : TopCat.Presheaf A X) :
(Scheme.OpenCover.{u} X)ᵒᵖ ⥤ A where
obj U := piObj fun j : U.unop.J => F.obj <| .op <|
(OpenOver.toOpens X).obj <| U.unop.toOpenOver j
map := fun {U V} f => Pi.lift fun j =>
Pi.π _ (f.unop.idx j) ≫ F.map (Quiver.Hom.op <| (OpenOver.toOpens X).map <|
Scheme.OpenCover.mapToOpenOver f.unop _)
map_id := sorry
map_comp := sorry
noncomputable
def Scheme.OpenCover.cechComplex [HasProducts A] [Preadditive A]
(U : Scheme.OpenCover.{u} X) (F : TopCat.Presheaf A X) : CochainComplex A ℕ :=
let e : U ⟶ ⊤_ _ := terminal.from U
let e := Arrow.mk e
let e := e.cechNerve
let e : CosimplicialObject _ := e.rightOp ⋙ Scheme.OpenCover.inducedFunctor F
(AlgebraicTopology.alternatingCofaceMapComplex _).obj e
For some reason, I'm still not completely happy with this definition. I would much rather be able to take an open cover of , consider the map , take the Cech nerve of that, take global sections, and take the associated complex. But it seems that for such an approach we will need the pullback functors that some people were working on at the AIM-AG workshop last week. How far are we from having such pullbacks?
Joël Riou (Jul 02 2024 at 18:42):
My suggestion would be to introduce a category FormalCoproduct C
(which for certain universes could be identified to the full subcategory of presheaves of sets which identify to coproducts of representable presheaves). My definition of the Cech complex would then be https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib4/compare/master...cech-experiment
(This API would be immediately usable when it becomes reasonable to study general hypercovers.)
Adam Topaz (Jul 02 2024 at 19:36):
yes, I agree. BTW I think FormalCoproduct C
should rather be called Indexed C
(and possibly should even be defined for plain types independently of category theory)
Adam Topaz (Jul 02 2024 at 19:39):
Unfortunately Indexed C
is a little "evil"... ext
for its Hom
s would involve HEq
or eqToHom
s
Adam Topaz (Jul 02 2024 at 19:43):
The stacks project calls this the category of "Semi-representable" objects BTW. I'm not a huge fan of that name.
Adam Topaz (Jul 02 2024 at 19:54):
I remember when constructing the Cech Nerve that I thought about using products in Over X
as opposed to wide pullbacks, and realized that it was painful (I don't remember exactly why though). It may be worthwhile to make a definition for families of arrows over a fixed base X
as well, say IndexedOver X
(or some other name). This has a terminal object which is the singleton 1 : X -> X
, and if X : C
and C
has finite wide-pullbacks over X
, then IndexedOver X
has finite wide-pullbacks over the terminal object. You could then use the preexisting cechNerve
instead of the variant cechSimplicial
.
Sophie Morel (Jul 15 2024 at 12:59):
Joël Riou said:
- In the context of topological spaces, pass though the colimit over open coverings to get a map from the Cech cohomology to the actual cohomology. Then get the technical lemma by Henri Cartan (Théorème II.5.9.2 in Godement's book, in French) which says that the morphisms from the Cech cohomology to the actual cohomology is an isomorphism under certain circumstances. Then, deduce the vanishing of the cohomology of quasi-coherent sheaves on affine schemes. The proof in Godement's book uses a spectral sequence (probably the one Adam is referring to), but a careful analysis of filtrations on the single complex of a double complex may be enough.
I am not saying that things in this list are not useful and should not be done, but proving the vanishing of the cohomology of quasi-coherent sheaves on affine schemes is much easier and does not require Cech cohomology (or spectral sequences for that matter), if you know that the functor is an equivalence from -modules to quasi-coherent sheaves on . As far as I remember, you only need to know that flabby sheaves have trivial cohomology.
Sophie Morel (Jul 15 2024 at 12:59):
But maybe you meant a more general version of the result?
Joël Riou (Jul 15 2024 at 13:19):
As far as I know, to make this argument work, we also need to know that if M
is an injective module, then is flasque, which may be true only in the Noetherian case (this is the proof in Hartshorne's book).
Sophie Morel (Jul 15 2024 at 14:49):
I was thinking of the proof in this paper of Kempf (in section 1, proposition 1 and theorem 2). I don't think that you need to know that is flasque for injective. Also, @Antoine Chambert-Loir mentioned to me that the proof is unnecessarily complicated at one point but I forgot the details, so it's probably better to ask him.
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jul 15 2024 at 15:45):
Indeed, the first lemma of that paper can be replaced by the simpler fact that cohomology classes (of degree alas 1) vanish locally.
Sophie Morel (Jul 15 2024 at 19:55):
Then you would also have to modify the proof of Theorem 2 of the paper, I think? I'm sorry, I'm probably missing something but I don't see how to do that.
Joël Riou (Jul 15 2024 at 20:43):
It seems to me that the proof of theorem 2 would not need much change. Then, for the variant of proposition 1 that Antoine suggests, it seems we do not even need to know anything about flasque sheaves. If is an injective resolution of an abelian sheaf F
, then a cohomology class of F
shall be the class of a cocycle of the complex . By the exactness of , locally this cocycle has to be a coboundary.
Sophie Morel (Jul 15 2024 at 20:49):
I don't have a problem with the fact that cohomology classes are locally zero, but I don't understand how to relate and , and it seems that you need that to prove theorem 2.
Sophie Morel (Jul 15 2024 at 20:50):
(Notation as in Kempf's paper: is an open subset of , and if we call the inclusion of in , then is by definition .)
Sophie Morel (Jul 15 2024 at 20:59):
The proof of theorem 2 is that you take a cohomology class in (here is an affine scheme, is quasi-coherent sheaf on , and ) and you want to embed into a quasi-coherent sheaf on such that the image of in is . Kempf takes to be equal to a direct sum for a finite open cover of by small enough basic open subschemes. How, from the local triviality of , do you deduce that you can choose such that the image of in each is zero? It is not true for a general sheaf that , so it cannot be an abstract nonsense argument. Am I missing something?
Sophie Morel (Jul 15 2024 at 21:01):
(Of course the isomorphism holds for quasi-coherent and affine, but that is usually deduced from the vanishing of the cohomology of quasi-coherent sheaves on affine schemes.)
Joël Riou (Jul 15 2024 at 21:05):
Thanks! Yes, I was confused with the notatoins. The proof of proposition 1 is more subtle than I initially thought.
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jul 15 2024 at 21:07):
I had written down the proof for my course in algebraic geometry. There are certainly mistakes that remain but that may be useful. See §6.1, page 267 of my notes on
Algebraic Geometry of Schemes
Joël Riou (Jul 15 2024 at 21:22):
I am afraid that the issue Sophie pointed out seems to apply to the statement "the cohomology group identifies with " in your text :-(
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jul 15 2024 at 21:26):
(In some sense, that's reassuring that Kempf has not missed an easy proof.)
Sophie Morel (Jul 16 2024 at 05:50):
I have also taught this proof in an algebraic geometry course, and I remember finding it more subtle than it looked at first.
Sophie Morel (Jul 16 2024 at 05:53):
But it does allow one to prove that the cohomology of quasi-coherent sheaves on affine schemes vanishes with minimal information about cohomology. If I remember well, what you need is the fact that identifies to global sections, the existence of the long exact sequence, and the fact that cohomology of flasque sheaves vanish. That last fact can be replaced with the fact that the restriction to an open subset of an injective abelian sheaf stays injective, which follows from the existence of an exact left adjoint of (i.e. ).
Sophie Morel (Jul 16 2024 at 05:56):
You do need to know some stuff about the , for example you have to be able to calculate the restriction of $$\wildetilde{M}$$ to an affine open subscheme of (it's ). Actually you only need the case where is basic, but the fact is true for any affine .
Antoine Chambert-Loir (Jul 16 2024 at 06:31):
Sophie Morel said:
I have also taught this proof in an algebraic geometry course, and I remember finding it more subtle than it looked at first.
Lemma 1 is a bit intricate, indeed, and I was happy to avoid it… Alas…
Sophie Morel (Jul 16 2024 at 08:39):
Once you have proved that cohomology of quasi-coherent sheaves on affine schemes vanishes, it is possible to deduce the isomorphism between the cohomology of a quasi-coherent sheaf (on a quasi-compact separated scheme) and its Cech cohomology for a finite affine open cover, by showing that the Cech complex of the quasi-coherent sheaf is an acyclic resolution of it. This is Theorem 13 in the same paper of Kempf. Here we take the non-alternating Cech complex, but where you choose an ordering on the opens in the cover and you don't repeat indices, so it is finite. You can also use the cohomology of this complex as a "cheap" definition of Cech cohomology in that case, and use this to do calculations like the cohomology of line bundles on projective space. I also did that in an algebraic geometry class, though the calculations were exercises!
Joël Riou (Jul 16 2024 at 12:42):
I have just PRed the definition of the sheaf cohomology of abelian sheaves on categories equipped with a Grothendieck topoplogy #14800.
Riccardo Brasca (Jul 16 2024 at 15:27):
Do we know that sheaves have enough injectives? Or did you avoid that?
Joël Riou (Jul 17 2024 at 10:33):
Riccardo Brasca said:
Do we know that sheaves have enough injectives? Or did you avoid that?
The Ext
groups are defined using the derived category, which does not require the existence of enough injectives.
(The existence of enough injectives (for sheaves of modules over a topological space) was formalised during the AIM workshop using skyscraper sheaves.)
Joël Riou (Jul 24 2024 at 19:06):
Using the long exact sequences of Ext
, I have just formalized the Mayer-Vietoris long exact sequences in sheaf cohomology #15099. For this, I have formalized certain types of "Mayer-Vietoris squares" so that it applies not only to the case of topological spaces (see https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib4/pull/15099/files#diff-28ed9f5f546a4424154cd41eed47f1bf7e4300ada781f26de22c6abf2d65ad3eR55-R69), but also to "Nisnevich distinguished squares" when more algebraic geometry is formalized.
Riccardo Brasca (Jul 24 2024 at 19:11):
Magnifique travail !
Last updated: May 02 2025 at 03:31 UTC