Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: FLT

Topic: Definition of absolute irreducibility


Stepan Nesterov (Jan 15 2026 at 20:37):

Currently absolute irreducibility is defined in FLT by

class IsAbsolutelyIrreducible : Prop where
  absolutelyIrreducible :  k',  _ : Field k',  _ : Algebra k k', IsIrreducible (k' ⊗ᵣ' ρ)

Then, if you try to prove that an absolutely irreducible representation is irreducible:

theorem isIrreducible_of_isAbsoultelyIrreducible (h : IsAbsolutelyIrreducible ρ) :
    IsIrreducible ρ := by
  obtain h := h
  specialize h k (by assumption) (by infer_instance)
  sorry

you need to work with (k⊗ᵣ'ρ), which is a Representation k G (TensorProduct k k W), and it seems like it would be quite painful to manually go between (TensorProduct k k W) and W every single time.
This reminds me of old blogpost by Kevin, where he explains that in a definition of a structure sheaf of an affine scheme, you do not use localizations defined by an explicit construction, but an arbitrary localization defined by a universal property. Can we do something similar here?
Is there a representation API with which I can say "A KK-linear representation ρ\rho is absolutely irreducible, if for any field extension K/KK'/K, and for any KK'-linear representation, which satisfies the universal property of base change of ρ\rho to KK', that representation is irreducible"?

Scott Carnahan (Jan 15 2026 at 21:13):

Are you asking for a Prop-valued IsBaseChange class?

Thomas Browning (Jan 15 2026 at 21:17):

Presumably, the actual definition of IsAbsolutelyIrreducible can remain more concrete, but there should be API saying that every IsBaseChange is irreducible.

Thomas Browning (Jan 15 2026 at 21:18):

Also, is it sufficient to ask for irreducibility over the algebraic closure? Because that would avoid the quantification over types.

Stepan Nesterov (Jan 15 2026 at 21:41):

Thomas Browning said:

Also, is it sufficient to ask for irreducibility over the algebraic closure? Because that would avoid the quantification over types.

It is equivalent to just irreducibility over the algebraic closure, and I’m trying to prove that as a theorem. I also replaced locally in my file Field with Field.{u}, so that it’s quantifying over the fields in the same universe as k only.

Kevin Buzzard (Jan 15 2026 at 21:49):

I can't imagine that the definition is used anywhere right now other than to state theorems, so I'd be happy to change it.


Last updated: Feb 28 2026 at 14:05 UTC