Zulip Chat Archive

Stream: Carleson

Topic: How to prove a ball is measurable


Jeremy Tan (Jul 30 2024 at 02:57):

I'm trying to prove the following in HardyLittlewood.lean and I have come across this very hard reduced goal:

protected theorem MeasureTheory.AEStronglyMeasurable.maximalFunction {p : }
    {u : X  E} (hu : AEStronglyMeasurable u μ) (h𝓑 : 𝓑.Countable) :
    AEStronglyMeasurable (maximalFunction μ 𝓑 c r p u) μ := by
  refine (aemeasurable_biSup 𝓑 h𝓑 fun i mi  aemeasurable_const.indicator ?_).pow
    aemeasurable_const |>.aestronglyMeasurable
  -- ⊢ MeasurableSet (ball (c i) (r i))
  sorry

This would seem like measurableSet_ball solves it, but that requires OpensMeasurableSpace X which is not provided in the given instances for X, and furthermore I'm not using hu at all. Where am I supposed to use hu?

Jeremy Tan (Jul 30 2024 at 03:00):

For reference:

variable {X E : Type*} {A : 0} [MetricSpace X] [MeasurableSpace X]
  {μ : Measure X} [μ.IsDoubling A] [NormedAddCommGroup E]
  [NormedSpace  E] [MeasurableSpace E] [BorelSpace E]
  {f : X  E} {x : X} {ι : Type*} {𝓑 : Set ι} {c : ι  X} {r : ι  }
  [IsFiniteMeasureOnCompacts μ] [ProperSpace X] [Nonempty X] [μ.IsOpenPosMeasure]
  -- feel free to assume `A ≥ 16` or similar

/-- The Hardy-Littlewood maximal function w.r.t. a collection of balls 𝓑.
M_{𝓑, p} in the blueprint. -/
def maximalFunction (μ : Measure X) (𝓑 : Set ι) (c : ι  X) (r : ι  )
  (p : ) (u : X  E) (x : X) : 0 :=
  ( i  𝓑, (ball (c i) (r i)).indicator (x := x)
  fun _  ⨍⁻ y in ball (c i) (r i), u y‖₊ ^ p μ) ^ p⁻¹

Jireh Loreaux (Jul 30 2024 at 03:02):

BorelSpace E implies OpensMeasuable E via docs#BorelSpace.opensMeasurable

Jireh Loreaux (Jul 30 2024 at 03:03):

so you can use measurableSet_ball

Jeremy Tan (Jul 30 2024 at 03:04):

No, I have ball (c i) (r i) : Set X, not Set E

Jireh Loreaux (Jul 30 2024 at 03:06):

oops sorry

Jireh Loreaux (Jul 30 2024 at 03:14):

(deleted)

Yury G. Kudryashov (Jul 30 2024 at 04:53):

My guess: the informal proof missed this assumption.

Yury G. Kudryashov (Jul 30 2024 at 04:53):

Or do you actually work with non-Borel σ-algebras in this project?

Jeremy Tan (Jul 30 2024 at 05:28):

X is a so-called doubling metric measure space:
"A doubling metric measure space (X,μ,ρ,a)(X,\mu,\rho,a) is a complete and locally compact metric space equipped with a σ\sigma-finite non-zero Radon–Borel measure μ\mu that satisfies the doubling condition that..."

Jeremy Tan (Jul 30 2024 at 05:32):

@Yury G. Kudryashov the DMMS described above is the most general kind of space we work with in this project, see blueprint

Floris van Doorn (Jul 30 2024 at 06:41):

If the formalization is missing BorelSpace then this is an oversight. I will add it.

Jeremy Tan (Jul 30 2024 at 06:57):

Do we lose any significant generality by adding BorelSpace X though?

Jeremy Tan (Jul 30 2024 at 07:18):

Surely there must be a way to use hu to prove the statement without BorelSpace X!

Yaël Dillies (Jul 30 2024 at 07:36):

No, there can't be. If you aren't in a Borel space and make u be a constant function, then you can get the indicator function of a non-measurable set

Jeremy Tan (Jul 30 2024 at 07:38):

I never learned point-set topology, let alone measure theory, in university…

Yaël Dillies (Jul 30 2024 at 07:44):

It's okay :smile: just pointing out that indeed you need BorelSpace X (or at least half of it, namely OpensMeasurableSpace X)

Jireh Loreaux (Jul 30 2024 at 08:32):

Of course, I think the hypothesis BorelSpace X should just be added, but at the same time, I was having quite a hard time coming up with an example of a doubling measure, positive on open sets and finite on compact sets which is not Borel. I guess maybe one idea could be to start with such a Borel measure, then throw out certain measure zero sets from the σ-algebra, but still maintain that it is indeed a σ-algebra? Seems a rather complicated counterexample to construct.

Floris van Doorn (Jul 30 2024 at 08:35):

I've added the hypothesis BorelSpace X now. After we finish the proof we can see if it's easy to weaken it to OpensMeasurableSpace.


Last updated: May 02 2025 at 03:31 UTC