Zulip Chat Archive
Stream: Equational
Topic: Implication Statistics
Harald Husum (Nov 01 2024 at 17:44):
I was curious about the distributions of the implication counts, both incoming and outgoing from our equivalence classes, so I made some plots:
Interactive versions, which I find more useful:
implications_linear.html
implications_log.html
Not sure there is that much to learn from these, but I noticed that we have some outliers. The Equivalence classes for Equations 3, 23, 40, 375 and 3715 have more implications than one would expect from the number of classes that implies them. If that pattern holds when considering more operations I guess that is an interesting property. Maybe one could think of them as "central" in the implication graph somehow.
Zoltan A. Kocsis (Z.A.K.) (Nov 02 2024 at 00:55):
It would be interesting to use different colors depending on the number of variables that occur in each equation. We already have some heuristics telling us what Implies/ImpliedBy counts we should expect based on that number.
Harald Husum (Nov 02 2024 at 23:01):
I could do that, but the equation expressions aren't in outcomes.json which I relied on for this plot. I would have to source them from elsewhere. Suggestions?
Terence Tao (Nov 02 2024 at 23:11):
https://github.com/teorth/equational_theories/blob/main/data/equations.txt has the list of 4694 equations
Harald Husum (Nov 03 2024 at 15:33):
Terence Tao said:
https://github.com/teorth/equational_theories/blob/main/data/equations.txt has the list of 4694 equations
Thanks! In hindsight I could probably have found that with a search of the repo.
Here's the plot colored by the (minimum) number of variables needed to express the equivalence classes:
Does it match your intuition, @Zoltan A. Kocsis (Z.A.K.) ?
Harald Husum (Nov 03 2024 at 16:07):
Here's the interactive version, since it's helpful to see which equation a point represents by hovering.
Terence Tao (Nov 03 2024 at 16:58):
That's a really nice plot. Would you mind if we added it to our (very sparse) images
directory? It does seem to largely align with the intuition that the implication graph tends to flow from many-variable equations to few-variable equations. It seems that the two-variable and three-variable equations dominate the bulk of the graph, which I guess also matches with our experience as these are the equations we are almost always dealing with in the human-generated arguments.
Amir Livne Bar-on (Nov 03 2024 at 17:26):
Maybe we can also add the twisting monoid to the plot somehow? (If this data is even available)
It should be highly correlated to the number of variables but interesting to see if we can pinpoint what feature of many variables causes a law to be strong
Terence Tao (Nov 03 2024 at 18:07):
There's a lot of statistics one could consider adding to the plot - size of smallest finite magma example also comes to mind - so maybe one could PR the script as well as the image so that others can add more features over time?
Harald Husum (Nov 03 2024 at 18:58):
I'm open to make a PR out of both the script and the plot. The script needs some cleanup first, though, and I'm not sure how much time I have in the next few days, so expect some delay. In the meantime I'm open to suggestions, like yours @Amir Livne Bar-on. As long as I can source the data from somewhere I can hopefully cobble together something.
Harald Husum (Nov 04 2024 at 21:50):
I found some time to work on this after all; the script and image are incoming in #792.
I haven't looked at adding the twisting monoid or size of the smallest finite magma yet, but that should be doable as followup work to this PR.
Harald Husum (Nov 05 2024 at 14:03):
stats.html
stats_smallest_magma.png
It turns out that equivalence classes with smallest nontrivial magma size > 2 tend to be at the "periphery" of the Hasse diagram. The larger the smallest nontrivial magma size the more isolated the equivalence class. Maybe not a huge surprise.
Terence Tao (Nov 05 2024 at 16:44):
There are some equations for which no non-trivial finite magma is currently known (we only checked all magmas of order up to 4, and some up to 5). Are those equations listed in the plot currently?
Harald Husum (Nov 05 2024 at 18:10):
They are, with gray color. See e.g. equation 2 in the bottom right. I can't immediately spot any others, but there's definitely some over-plotting going on here though, so some points might be hiding underneath others.
Harald Husum (Nov 05 2024 at 20:00):
Ah, in addition to equation 2 it looks like there's only 1286 and its dual 2301 that lack a smallest nontrivial magma.
Perhaps a future direction of the project could be to identify a smallest nontrivial magma for the two latter? I'm not in a position to judge whether that is feasible or not, but if I've understood it correctly, no law of less than 5 operations can be Austin, correct?
Terence Tao (Nov 05 2024 at 20:06):
Interesting! We had obtained a linear model of order 7 for 1286, as noted in the commentary on equation explorer, but we had not ruled out the possibility of a model of order 5 or 6. This looks like it could be done via ATPs though, if anyone has some spare CPU cycles to devote to finishing this off, then we can complete the "smallest finite magma" table.
Harald Husum (Nov 05 2024 at 20:21):
Sounds like a good idea! I hope someone picks up that idea.
I'm noting, by the way, that also 1286/2301 lies on the periphery. I'm conjecturing that as one expands the number of operations under consideration, the cardinality of the smallest non-trivial magma will continue to negatively correlate with "centrality", where a measure for the latter property can be defined as log(n_implications * n_implied_by).
Harald Husum (Nov 05 2024 at 20:28):
Amir Livne Bar-on said:
Maybe we can also add the twisting monoid to the plot somehow? (If this data is even available)
It should be highly correlated to the number of variables but interesting to see if we can pinpoint what feature of many variables causes a law to be strong
Can't seem to find data on the twisting monoid anywhere. Let me know if you can produce any.
Amir Livne Bar-on (Nov 05 2024 at 20:33):
Checked with Mace4, equation 1286 doesn't have models with sizes 2-6, the smallest non-trivial model is of order 7
Terence Tao (Nov 05 2024 at 20:41):
OK, in equational#795 I have manually updated the smallest_magma.txt
and smallest_magma_examples.txt
files to include these examples, hopefully this doesn't break anything.
Terence Tao (Nov 05 2024 at 20:42):
@Matthew Bolan produced twisting monoid statistics at https://leanprover.zulipchat.com/#narrow/channel/458659-Equational/topic/1485/near/480756118
Amir Livne Bar-on (Nov 05 2024 at 20:58):
Terence Tao said:
OK, in equational#795 I have manually updated the
smallest_magma.txt
andsmallest_magma_examples.txt
files to include these examples, hopefully this doesn't break anything.
The text in Equation1286.md refers to (p,a,b) = (11,1,7)
as a proof of non-implication of equation 3. The example you added is idempotent, and is in fact a renaming of the linear model (p,a,b) = (7,6,2)
. The isomorphic version that's properly linear is
[0, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1], [2, 1, 0, 6, 5, 4, 3], [4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 6, 5], [6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0], [1, 0, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2], [3, 2, 1, 0, 6, 5, 4], [5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 6]
Jose Brox (Nov 05 2024 at 22:06):
Amir Livne Bar-on ha dicho:
Checked with Mace4, equation 1286 doesn't have models with sizes 2-6, the smallest non-trivial model is of order 7
Double checked!
Last updated: May 02 2025 at 03:31 UTC