Paper sign off

Stream: Equational

[Shreyas Srinivas]

I’d like to request all authors to sign off with a message saying “I consent to uploading the paper to arxiv ” or something similar if you are okay with it in this thread. @Martin Dvořák could you tag all authors please?

[Martin Dvořák]

@Matthew Bolan
@Joachim Breitner
@Jose Brox
@Nicholas Carlini
@Mario Carneiro
@Floris van Doorn
@Andrés Goens
@Aaron Hill
@Hernan Ibarra
@Zoltan A. Kocsis (Z.A.K.)
@Bruno Le Floch
@Amir Livne Bar-on
@Lorenzo Luccioli
@Douglas McNeil
@Alex Meiburg
@Pietro Monticone
@Pace Nielsen
@Giovanni Paolini
@Marco Petracci
@Bernhard Reinke
@David Renshaw
@Marcus Rossel
@Cody Roux
@Jérémy Scanvic
@Shreyas Srinivas
@Anand Rao Tadipatri
@Terence Tao
@Vlad Tsyrklevich
@Daniel Weber
@Fan Zheng

[Martin Dvořák]

@Harald Husum

I could not find:
Emmanuel Osalotioman Osazuwa
Fernando Vaquerizo-Villar

[David Renshaw]

I assume that this is the paper we are talking about: https://teorth.github.io/equational_theories/paper.pdf

[Martin Dvořák]

I thought we talked about the 74-pages-long paper posted today on Zulip.

[Mario Carneiro]

let's just upvote the message above?

[David Renshaw]

ok, please add a link to the paper that we should look at

[Martin Dvořák]

@Shreyas Srinivas can you please clarify?

[Shreyas Srinivas]

The current draft pdf is linked in this message and subject to reviews in the latest PR of Jose

[Shreyas Srinivas]

https://leanprover.zulipchat.com/#narrow/channel/458659-Equational/topic/Writing.20the.20paper/near/562017194

[Shreyas Srinivas]

We are in a rush because Jose has an application to make.

[Mario Carneiro]

saving an indirection: PDF link

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Also please help review the PR

[Mario Carneiro]

number?

[Shreyas Srinivas]

1391

[Shreyas Srinivas]

@Osalotioman

[Harald Husum]

A last minute change: https://github.com/teorth/equational_theories/pull/1392

[Harald Husum]

After that I'm good.

[Harald Husum]

Sorry for the delay.

[Jose Brox]

Martin Dvořák ha dicho:

I could not find:
Fernando Vaquerizo-Villar

Fernando Vaquerizo Villar does not have a Zulip account, but I have contacted him, and he has agreed to publish the paper on arXiv and has given me permission to confirm this here on his behalf.

[Cody Roux]

I consent to uploading the paper to arxiv!

[Emmanuel Osalotioman Osazuwa]

Martin Dvořák said:

Harald Husum

I could not find:
Emmanuel Osalotioman Osazuwa
Fernando Vaquerizo-Villar

I consent to uploading the paper to arxiv

[Terence Tao]

I also consent

[Shreyas Srinivas]

I gave the pdf of Jose to Turnitin. It gave a score of 9% (including all the bibliographic stuff). I printed their report and will upload it for all to verify.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

TurnItInpaperreport.pdf

[Alex Meiburg]

Sorry, but why did you give it to Turnitin...?

[Shreyas Srinivas]

It's standard process to check it I guess?

[Shreyas Srinivas]

It's offered by my uni

[Alex Meiburg]

Huh. I'd never heard of someone doing that, and haven't done that in any collaboration of mine before. Alright, sure! :)

[Shreyas Srinivas]

If nothing else, it's a good way to check that we have not forgotten any citations or missed any relevant literature

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Have I committed a faux pas? At least here in my part of Germany they seem to emphasise these tools all the time in uni ethics guidance.

[Martin Dvořák]

I think you did everything well. It is just that the result of the test isn't very relevant.

[Douglas McNeil]

Given how large the authorship group is, I think it should be reassuring, though.

Even among professionals there are sometimes slight differences in culture, e.g. about whether it's okay to self-quote on common introductory material, which arXiv sometimes flags over-aggressively IMO.

When you have outsiders writing parts too, I think it's a good idea to make at least some due diligence efforts. That way if it turns out I stole my text from the back of a cereal box, you can at least say "first, we had no reason to believe there were Canadian cereals discussing equational theories, and second, we checked a standard tool with no relevant results."

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Martin Dvořák said:

I think you did everything well. It is just that the result of the test isn't very relevant.

I posted the result to establish a time stamped record that we have done this particular step of due diligence and make sure others can check it and see that we haven’t missed anything.

[Bruno Le Floch]

Ok. Indeed for plagiarism it is moderately useful. I was specifically reacting to the claim that it would help with missing citations and relevant literature. I think it's highly unlikely that an automated tool would have useful input of this kind given how diverse our references are. There are lots of papers we don't cite on algebraic structures, universal algebra, confluence, ATPs, etc., so it's probably easy to propose dozens of additional references, but the manual work of deciding which ones we should cite is likely too much.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

In principle the tool is supposed to crawl online for literature and search for similarities. It is also supposed to look for uncited claims within the document. I know they are not perfect, but I suspect it would still help if we had all missed something blindingly obvious because we are all working on different pieces of this paper.

[Bruno Le Floch]

If I understand correctly, the current status is that out of the 34 authors listed on the paper, 28 agreed by reacting on Martin Dvořák's message above, Fernando Vaquerizo Villar agreed via an email to Jose Brox, Cody Roux by an explicit message above, and we possibly do not have any information coming for @Marco Petracci, @Marcus Rossel, @Anand Rao Tadipatri, @Fan Zheng. I may have simply missed their messages.

[Giovanni Paolini]

I pinged @Marco Petracci via email.

[Jose Brox]

I think we have unsuccessfully tried to contact @Fan Zheng repeatedly in the last months.

[Douglas McNeil]

We may have to downgrade people to first-tier acknowledgments if they can't be reached before journal submission time. It's hard to justify extending their presumed agreement beyond the preprint server, which itself is a bit of a stretch though not a crazy one in our circumstances.

[Terence Tao]

One possible consideration is that when a paper is accepted by a journal, one typically has to sign a publication agreement with the journal publisher. Nowadays it is common for a journal to only require that a single corresponding author sign for the entire collaboration, rather than go through the trouble of collecting (electronic) signatures from each co-author; but even so, I think it is understood that the corresponding author has actually done enough due diligence to sign on behalf of all co-authors. Every current co-author has already "opted in" to the collaboration by submitting a collaboration PR that was accepted by the github repo (though in a few cases when the coauthor did not use github, I submitted such a PR on their behalf with their consent), but I suppose a second "opt in" for the actual journal submission is reasonable, especially given that it is already 30/34 complete.

[Hernan Ibarra]

I've pinged @Anand Rao Tadipatri privately

[Anand Rao Tadipatri]

Apologies for the delay in responding, I was travelling. I consent to the paper being uploaded to arXiv.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

It seems the final PRs are in. If there are no further reasons to wait, I will submit to arxiv in 4 hours

[Marcus Rossel]

@Bruno Le Floch I've :check:-ed now, too.

[Jose Brox]

Martin Dvořák ha dicho:

Matthew Bolan
Joachim Breitner
Jose Brox
Nicholas Carlini
Mario Carneiro
Floris van Doorn
Andrés Goens
Aaron Hill
Hernan Ibarra
Zoltan A. Kocsis (Z.A.K.)
Bruno Le Floch
Amir Livne Bar-on
Lorenzo Luccioli
Douglas McNeil
Alex Meiburg
Pietro Monticone
Pace Nielsen
Giovanni Paolini
Marco Petracci
Bernhard Reinke
David Renshaw
Marcus Rossel
Cody Roux
Jérémy Scanvic
Shreyas Srinivas
Anand Rao Tadipatri
Terence Tao
Vlad Tsyrklevich
Daniel Weber
Fan Zheng
Harald Husum
Emmanuel Osalotioman Osazuwa

Once it is in arXiv, I'd like to upload our paper to Researchgate. Do I have your consent? Please, check here with :check: for giving consent, react with :cross_mark: in case you do not consent (and please explain why, if you don't mind!).

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Not researchgate please. Surely orcid and google scholar is enough?

[Jose Brox]

My intention is to increase the visibility of our work (I think the more platforms, the better). Moreover, Researchgate has a "boosting" option to increase visibility even more for a couple of days, that I find useful. Occasionally I have received through this channel an interesting article that I had previously missed.

[Jose Brox]

Shreyas Srinivas ha dicho:

Not researchgate please.

Could you elaborate on your negative? What are the drawbacks?

[Shreyas Srinivas]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-02182-w

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Just one example. It also forces users to create accounts to access papers. Which are freely available elsewhere btw.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Also I think we can safely count on this paper being very visible

[Shreyas Srinivas]

It has already been cited once at iclr and by the busy beaver paper

[Shreyas Srinivas]

(Someone should tag the busy beaver authors who said they’ll update the citation in their preprint once ours was up on arxiv)

[Bruno Le Floch]

Before tagging the busy beaver authors we should fix CITATION.cff as done by my draft PR https://github.com/teorth/equational_theories/pull/1407 Currently, the link "Cite this repository" on https://github.com/teorth/equational_theories/ gives an incomplete author list. My PR is a draft because I'm waiting for a few more coauthors to reply to my request of their ORCID.

[Bruno Le Floch]

The reference provided by https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/THE-EQUATIONAL-THEORIES-PROJECT%3A-USING-LEAN-AND-TO/01d5b52f010219dd63176a88f2a5f1a9f9f2d025 is messed up (wrong title, no author), maybe there is a process to fix it?

[Shreyas Srinivas]

I think currently all the indices are borrowing off the project webpage and messing it up

[Shreyas Srinivas]

and many of them indexed it with the old paper title

[Shreyas Srinivas]

We need the preprint up to fix this

[Bruno Le Floch]

My pull request https://github.com/teorth/equational_theories/pull/1407 correcting CITATION.cff with the full list of authors, and adding (some) ORCID to CITATION.cff and contributions.tex is now done.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Merged

[Shreyas Srinivas]

I have the paper password. Could someone create the big group DM. Zulip doesn’t permit this on phone

[Jose Brox]

Shreyas Srinivas ha dicho:

Not researchgate please. Surely orcid and google scholar is enough?

Regarding Researchgate publication: @Shreyas Srinivas we have published the arXiv draft under a Creative Commons license, right? (I'm not sure if we discussed somewhere which license we wanted as a group).
In that case, not only the authors, but actually any interested person can share the paper in any media they want. We are in fact intentionally giving up any pretension of controlling the distribution of our paper. Am I right?

[Shreyas Srinivas]

I recall it’s a CC with attribution

[Shreyas Srinivas]

But I seriously recommend not funding these gatekeeping LinkedIns of the research world.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

I am usually immediately suspicious of papers that are primarily available on research gate

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Or worse academia.edu

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Which have terms and conditions that are incompatible with any sense of ownership that authors maybe have over their papers

[Jose Brox]

How do you define "primarily"?

I do not understand when you say Researchgate is gatekeeping: I'm right now logged out from Researchgate (and with a VPN and incognito mode, so no way Researchgate knows I have an account), looking at a paper page, and I see its doi, its abstract, and a publicly available full text under a CC license.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Browser fingerprinting goes beyond cookies.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

But even beside that that is not my usual experience. I am required to sign in to read the full text of the paper.

[Jose Brox]

(I also tried with a vanilla browser).

Try it yourself, this is literally the first item that showed in my Researchgate pile:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/397550873_Alternating_generalized_Fibonacci_sequences

The fact that some authors choose not to share their work publicly in Researchgate, or are forced not to share it due to journal restrictions, is not Researchgate's fault. On the contrary, what I tend to see is people infringing their own copyright agreements and sharing more than they comitted to.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

I think we should at least decide on where we submit and check what rights the venue gives us

Even research gate says “These rights can vary significantly from publisher to publisher and should always be checked. If you have any doubt about your permission to share, we strongly encourage you to review your license agreement and any information your publisher makes available on its website before you upload the content. ”
https://help.researchgate.net/hc/en-us/articles/14846037644817-Copyright-and-ResearchGate

[Jose Brox]

Yes, but that applies to the published version, not to the draft, arXived one.

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Journals usually make exceptions for preprints and personal website copies.

[David Michael Roberts]

Springer Nature has in the past few years really tightened the screws on the limited rights they leave to authors regarding updating preprints on the arXiv.
Not sure it's relevant for this paper, especially if Annals of Formalized Math. is going to be the venue. But even an editor (and I believe the EiC) of a Springer journal I recently had a paper accepted at didn't realise how stringent the publishing agreement for their own journal had become.

[David Michael Roberts]

https://mathstodon.xyz/@highergeometer/115149958238059952

[Jose Brox]

As I suspected that would happen, someone (not me; perhaps some automated tool?) has already uploaded our paper to Researchgate. I mention it here in case those authors which have a Researchgate account want to confirm their authorship (I just did it):

(We will have to ensure that the paper really is the right one)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/398474700_The_Equational_Theories_Project_Advancing_Collaborative_Mathematical_Research_at_Scale

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Did the uploader ask our consent?

[Jose Brox]

They don't need it, the paper is in arXiv under CC!

[Shreyas Srinivas]

Sigh

[Jose Brox]

(Or we could say, we already gave our consent, when choosing the license. That was my point the other day).

[Shreyas Srinivas]

I don’t have an active researchgate profile (I might have created one a decade ago but I don’t remember). So if someone claims my name, it’s definitely not me.

[Bruno Le Floch]

The file on Researchgate coincides with the arXiv file (checked with diff).

[Jose Brox]

Shreyas Srinivas ha dicho:

I don’t have an active researchgate profile

Out of curiosity, if you click the link above, what do you see? The DOI, the file?

[Shreyas Srinivas]

I see the DOI

[Jose Brox]

FWIW, ChatGPT says that Researchgate regularly scrapes arXiv and automatically creates entries, but it does not automatically upload the paper file, regardless of its license. The file uploading is always a human process.

[Emmanuel Osalotioman Osazuwa]

Fan Zheng is truncated as Fan Zhen in the author list, though the author list on arxiv has already been update to fix the truncation, not sure if there is any way to update it on researchgate @Jose Brox ?

[Jose Brox]

Emmanuel Osalotioman Osazuwa ha dicho:

not sure if there is any way to update it on researchgate @Jose Brox

Never did it before, but I've been able to do it! It says the request will be processed shortly.

[Terence Tao]

If I understand correctly, all co-authors except for @Marco Petracci and @Fan Zheng have explicitly signed off on the paper? Is anyone in contact with these two authors?

[Lorenzo Luccioli]

I think @Marco Petracci has already put a :check:reaction on the original sign off message

[Fan Zheng]

I consent to uploading the paper to arxiv and submitting it to a journal.