Zulip Chat Archive
Stream: maths
Topic: infinite product measure
Nick_adfor (Dec 20 2025 at 15:37):
I want to use Lean to write a proof of the problem:
Let be a family of -finite measure spaces. Can one discuss the existence of a product measure on the infinite product space with respect to the product -algebra in the same way as when the index set ?
I check some of the Mathlib code for Measure Theory and find that there seems not a definition about infinite product measure. So I may think the hardest part of formalization is about the proper definition of infinite product measure. I try a kind of formalization (not so mature).
Any suggestion is welcomed.
import Mathlib
open MeasureTheory
open scoped ENNReal
universe u v
section InfiniteProductMeasures
variable {I : Type u} (Ω : I → Type v)
[∀ i, MeasurableSpace (Ω i)]
(μ : ∀ i, Measure (Ω i)) [∀ i, SigmaFinite (μ i)]
/-! Basic Definitions -/
def ProdSpace := ∀ i, Ω i
instance : MeasurableSpace (ProdSpace Ω) :=
⨆ i, MeasurableSpace.comap (fun x : ProdSpace Ω => x i) inferInstance
structure FinCylinder where
J : Finset I
sets : ∀ i, Set (Ω i)
sets_measurable : ∀ i, MeasurableSet (sets i)
sets_full_outside : ∀ i ∉ J, sets i = Set.univ
def cylinderSet (C : FinCylinder Ω) : Set (ProdSpace Ω) :=
{x | ∀ i, x i ∈ C.sets i}
noncomputable def cylinderMeasure (C : FinCylinder Ω) : ℝ≥0∞ :=
∏ i ∈ C.J, μ i (C.sets i)
-- Definition of "all but countably many are probability measures" condition
structure TailProbabilityCondition where
J : Set I
J_countable : Set.Countable J
is_probability_outside : ∀ i ∉ J, μ i (Set.univ) = 1
-- In fact, we need μ i to be probability measures, not just measure of whole space = 1
is_probability_measure_outside : ∀ i ∉ J, IsProbabilityMeasure (μ i)
-- Condition: uncountably many factors have infinite total measure
structure UncountableInfiniteCondition where
infinite_indices : Set I
uncountable : ¬ Set.Countable infinite_indices
has_infinite_measure : ∀ i ∈ infinite_indices, μ i (Set.univ) = ∞
/-!
Theorem 1: Countable index set case
When I is countable, a σ-finite product measure always exists
-/
theorem product_measure_exists_countable_index [Countable I] :
∃ (ν : Measure (ProdSpace Ω)),
SigmaFinite ν ∧
∀ (C : FinCylinder Ω),
ν {x : ProdSpace Ω | ∀ i, x i ∈ C.sets i} = ∏ i ∈ C.J, μ i (C.sets i) := by
sorry
/-!
Theorem 2: Uncountable index set with "tail probability measure" condition
-/
theorem product_measure_exists_tail_probability
(h : TailProbabilityCondition Ω μ) :
∃ (ν : Measure (ProdSpace Ω)),
SigmaFinite ν ∧
∀ (C : FinCylinder Ω),
ν {x : ProdSpace Ω | ∀ i, x i ∈ C.sets i} = ∏ i ∈ C.J, μ i (C.sets i) := by
sorry
/-!
Theorem 3: Uncountable index set with uncountably many infinite-measure factors
This case is impossible
-/
theorem no_sigma_finite_product_uncountable_infinite
(h : UncountableInfiniteCondition Ω μ) :
¬ ∃ (ν : Measure (ProdSpace Ω)),
SigmaFinite ν ∧
∀ (C : FinCylinder Ω),
ν {x : ProdSpace Ω | ∀ i, x i ∈ C.sets i} = ∏ i ∈ C.J, μ i (C.sets i) := by
sorry
Nick_adfor (Dec 20 2025 at 15:40):
The math proof (It is also not so mature. I try to refer to https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/21945/infinite-product-of-measurable-spaces)
Theorem 1 (Countable Index Set)
When the index set is countable, a -finite product measure always exists on the infinite product space. The construction proceeds by decomposing each -finite measure into a sum of finite measures . Each finite measure is normalized to a probability measure . For every sequence of indices, the Kolmogorov extension theorem provides a probability product measure on the countable product. The desired -finite product measure is then obtained as a countable sum , which is -finite and coincides with the finite-dimensional product on every cylinder set.
Theorem 2 (Uncountable Index Set with Tail Probability Condition)
For an uncountable index set , a -finite product measure exists if and only if there is a countable subset such that is -finite for every and is a probability measure (i.e., ) for every .
Necessity. Assume a -finite product measure exists. Write the product space as a countable union with . Each belongs to the product -algebra, hence depends on at most countably many coordinates; let be this countable set of coordinates. The union remains countable. For any , the measure must satisfy ; otherwise, the cylinder would have infinite -measure, contradicting the -finiteness of .
Sufficiency. When such a countable set exists, construct the product measure in two steps. On the countable coordinates , apply Theorem 1 to obtain a -finite product measure . On the remaining coordinates , all measures are probability measures; the Kolmogorov extension theorem yields a probability product measure . The tensor product is then a -finite measure on the full product space that satisfies the required cylinder condition.
Theorem 3 (Impossibility with Uncountably Many Infinite Factors)
If the set is uncountable, then no -finite product measure can exist on .
Suppose, for contradiction, that such a measure exists. By -finiteness we have with . Each , being an element of the product -algebra, depends on at most countably many coordinates; denote this countable set by . The union is still countable. Since is uncountable, we can choose an index . Consider the cylinder . By the definition of a product measure, . However, is covered by the sets , each of finite measure, which would force – a contradiction. Hence no -finite satisfying the product condition can exist.
Rémy Degenne (Dec 20 2025 at 15:48):
We have a product measure over an infinite index, for probability measures: MeasureTheory.Measure.infinitePi
Nick_adfor (Dec 20 2025 at 15:53):
Very thanks. It might be my careless check:(
Lua Viana Reis (Dec 20 2025 at 18:11):
the Kolmogorov extension theorem provides a probability product measure
I don't think this proof works for probability measures, the KET needs some extra assumptions, no? (of topological nature)
The desired -finite product measure is then obtained as a countable sum
This is also not a countable sum, is uncountable.
That said, it is a theorem that
so generally speaking if you can define a countable product, then it should be possible to do uncountable too
Nick_adfor (Dec 20 2025 at 18:45):
There's a very terrible problem: the origin problem want to discuss omega_i in the "same" way, the "same" may mean KET in probability measure on countable set. However, one can see the problem does not contain any word about "probability", just "same". The problem might be from some probability book and needs
context so I'm trying to ask my professor to fix the problem statement.
We can check that the problem itself seems to have math error on countable set I. Theorem 1 and Theorem 2 are wrong because of count measure (count measure is sigma-infinite measure).
Nick_adfor (Dec 20 2025 at 18:48):
5bfb3c76-920b-44ca-ad8f-b15794bca2c7-output.lean.txt
Here's Aristotle.
Lua Viana Reis (Dec 20 2025 at 19:13):
(deleted)
Lua Viana Reis (Dec 20 2025 at 19:19):
(deleted)
Last updated: Dec 20 2025 at 21:32 UTC